Heavyweight Rankings

[Sugarj]

I totally agree....and this will especially be the case should the division continue its spiral beneath the sewers of boxing history.

Absolutely!!!

I've no idea why every big, half athletic youngster isn't getting down to his local boxing gym.

The pathway to becoming a world class heavyweight and the riches which come with the prize has surely never been easier!

I can't knock the Klitschko's for being solid professionals in a weak era. Its amazing that they keep motivated and clearly in shape.

To be honest, the next really decent heavyweight will show up in the next five years, history shows us that someone special shows up every 10 or 15 years!

Dempsey prime 1921-1923
Louis prime 1938
Marciano prime 1953-1954
Ali prime 1966-1967
Holmes prime 1978-1979
Tyson prime 1988
Lewis prime 1999-2000

(All the above primes were separated by around 10 and 15 years).

I can't wait!!!!

[StarshipTrooper]

01. Muhammad Ali
02. Joe Louis
03. Jack Johnson
04. Jack Dempsey
05. Larry Holmes
06. Sonny Liston
07. Evander Holyfield
08. George Foreman
09. Rocky Marciano
10. Mike Tyson
11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills

[Dubblechin]

The Ring rating Holyfield number three is a great example of why you should never slap an all-time rating on a fighter until he's retired. They did the same thing with Roberto Duran in 1980. There was an all-time pound-for-pound list, and I believe they had Duran (who had just defeated Leonard and had a record of like 72-1) rated #1 or #2 all-time. I don't think you'd find him anywhere near the top spot now.

I'd rate them something like this:

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Larry Holmes
5. George Foreman
6. Joe Frazier
7. Mike Tyson
8. Sonny Liston

And if the Klitschkos continue to dominate, depending on how their careers wrap up, both will make their way into that top 10 (not necessarily at the bottom). Their era is no worse than the eras Joe Louis or Sonny Liston or even Mike Tyson dominated. But, again, it depends on how their careers finish up.

At the moment, though, Joe Frazier is right up there.

[StarshipTrooper]

They did the same thing with Roberto Duran in 1980. There was an all-time pound-for-pound list, and I believe they had Duran (who had just defeated Leonard and had a record of like 72-1) rated #1 or #2 all-time. I don't think you'd find him anywhere near the top spot now.

You do realize that Roberto Duran routinely makes top-10 All-Time p4p lists to this day? And with good reason considering he's the concensus GOAT at Lightweight.

Their era is no worse than the eras Joe Louis or Sonny Liston or even Mike Tyson dominated. But, again, it depends on how their careers finish up.

I'm sorry, but I've been watching boxing for 35 years and I've never seen the Heavyweight division this bad. The 1980s came close but it was still better than the backed-up cesspool we have today.

Poet

[Dubblechin]

You do realize that Roberto Duran routinely makes top-10 All-Time p4p lists to this day? And with good reason considering he's the concensus GOAT at Lightweight.




I'm sorry, but I've been watching boxing for 35 years and I've never seen the Heavyweight division this bad. The 1980s came close but it was still better than the backed-up cesspool we have today.

Poet

Today, Roberto Duran isn't rated the best ever pound-for-pound, like he was then. That's my point.

And I've been watching boxing since the 1970s, and the guys the Klitschkos are beating aren't any worse than the guys Joe Louis beat, or the guys Sonny Liston beat, or the guys Mike Tyson feasted on before the Douglas fight. When Tyson was destroying everyone, people complained then that the division was terrible. Some with Louis. They didn't label them "Bums of the Month" because they thought he was defending against excellent challengers.

I'm not saying the Klitschkos deserve to be in the top 10 yet, it depends on how they finish up. They could both hold the title until they are 46 years old and both have more defenses than Joe Louis, and it would be foolish not to rate them near the top. Or they could lose in their next fights and not make the grade. It's too early to tell.

Look, I love the old-timers, and I think Joe Louis could beat everyone Vitali has beaten. But I also think Vitali could beat everyone Joe Louis beat. And when Joe Louis was Vitali's age, he was a bloated pro wrestler shooting heroin after matches.

Regardless, this is a Joe Frazier thread.

[StarshipTrooper]

Regardless, this is a Joe Frazier thread.

Then why did you turn it into a Klitschko propaganda thread? Just couldn't resist to the urge to big up your heros?

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Today, Roberto Duran isn't rated the best ever pound-for-pound, like he was then. That's my point.

Anybody good enough to crack the top-10 All-Time p4p is interchangable with anyone else making the cut not named Robinson. So it's not exactly outrageous to talk about Duran in that kind of company.

Poet

[Dubblechin]

Then why did you turn it into a Klitschko propaganda thread? Just couldn't resist to the urge to big up your heros?

Poet

The Klitschkos aren't my "heroes." I've been banned from sites for insisting they fight each other to prove who is the real champ.

When I rate fighters, I rate them objectively. I was never an Ali fan, and always loved Frazier, but you see how I have them rated.

I just wanted to explain why I left the ninth and tenth spots open ... and it's because the Klitschkos are probably going to join my top 10 when all is said and done.

[Dubblechin]

Anybody good enough to crack the top-10 All-Time p4p is interchangable with anyone else making the cut not named Robinson. So it's not exactly outrageous to talk about Duran in that kind of company.

Poet

My point is you don't see Duran rated #1 P-4-P anymore because you judge his whole career. And his whole career doesn't warrant the top spot. Same with Holyfield. People in this thread couldn't understand why Evander was rated #3. It's because they rated him when he arguably scored his biggest win and they didn't wait to see how his career finished up.

Jesus. Do you just come on here to argue minute points?

[StarshipTrooper]

just wanted to explain why I left the ninth and tenth spots open ... and it's because the Klitschkos are probably going to join my top 10 when all is said and done.

They'll never warrent that sort of ranking. Vitali may crack the top-20 but Wlad doesn't make it past the top-20 to top-30. And that IS objective. They aren't that good. They're simply what's floated to the surface of the cesspool. Vitali couldn't even beat the best fighter he faced when that fighter was well past-it and out of shape.....and Lennox doesn't get any higher than 13 by my reckoning. Wlad got KTFO by tomato cans ffs.

Poet