McCarty or Ibeabuchi??

[JAB5239]

Luther McCarty died at just 21 years old. At the time he was being hailed as the next "great white hope". He had a good record against decent competition.

Ibeabuchi like McCarty was hailed as the "next great heavyweight " when he lost his marbles and derailed his own career at just 26. Ike also had some decent wins against Byrd and Tua that propelled him into the heavyweight spotlight.

My question is which of these fighters had more to offer their respective era's and how far could they have gone if not for there own tragedies?

[Willow The Wisp]

Great posts lately

[JAB5239]

At age 21, McCarty best days are were ahead of him. It is unknown how good he would have become. I think there is no film of the man. IMO Jack Johnson avoided him. McCarty beat many of Johnson's title opponents.

"McCarty became the white champ on New Year’s Day in 1913. Soon after, in an interview with the Cincinnati Enquirer, he has quoted as saying he had “no use for a Negro” and would not fight Jack Johnson “under any circumstances.”

Sounds the other way around to me.



That being said, Luther was more unproven and not as polished or experienced as Ike at their respective times of demise.

Your own article has McCarty wanting no part of Johnson, even after Johnson called for the fight.

[JAB5239]

DATES. He said this after winning the " white championship. " Johnson was on the run fighting in France. Presumably McCarty had other white fighters in mind at the time and since Johnson was not white was DQ'd. But if McCarty was offered the money Flynn received in 1912 for fighting Johnson ( McCarty defeated Flynn and Moran ) and drew with Willard at age 20, who is to say McCarthy would not oblige? Make sense?

Once Jack Johnson chose the fighters McCarty beat, and McCarty won his own title in 1913, a USA fight was not likely.

The "White" championship? Because that's recognized as a true world championship, or because most white fighters needed something to feel good about themselves because they feared losing to a black man they considered inferior, but deep down knew they weren't. The lineal heavyweight championship was the one and only true championship and McCarty hid behind the bogus why championship to avoid Johnson. Here is an excerpt from the link YOU posted.

After the events of the Palzer fight, (54–10–10–3, 25 KOs) set side the tradition that required the champions to wait for others to challenge them, and called on McCarty to face him for the . Speaking after the fight, McCarty said: "When I accepted the heavy-weight championship belt, I agreed to an unwritten clause that I should never fight a negro [...] Well, I'm going to live up to my contract.", and that he would not fight Johnson "under any circumstances.”"

^{McCarty may have been or could have been a very good fighter, but the fact is he wasnt trying to fight the best. Johnson was seen as the best, like it or not. So you can get out of here with your silly opinion when the facts have been laid out in front of you.}

[JAB5239]

So Ibeabuchi's career would have continued on after the Byrd fight. He isn't getting Grant or Holyfield as they're tied up with title shots against Lewis and Ruiz respectively. Vits had Byrd in 2000 and we know what happened there so that take VK off Ike's radar for at least a couple of years. My guess is he takes on Andrew Golota. The foul Pole gets outwork in this fight in my opinion and Ike takes a UD victory.

Any other scenarios for this time frame before moving on?

[Willie Pep 229]

The "White" championship? Because that's recognized as a true world championship, or because most white fighters needed something to feel good about themselves because they feared losing to a black man they considered inferior, but deep down knew they weren't. The lineal heavyweight championship was the one and only true championship and McCarty hid behind the bogus why championship to avoid Johnson. Here is an excerpt from the link YOU posted.

After the events of the Palzer fight, (54–10–10–3, 25 KOs) set side the tradition that required the champions to wait for others to challenge them, and called on McCarty to face him for the . Speaking after the fight, McCarty said: "When I accepted the heavy-weight championship belt, I agreed to an unwritten clause that I should never fight a negro [...] Well, I'm going to live up to my contract.", and that he would not fight Johnson "under any circumstances.”"

^{McCarty may have been or could have been a very good fighter, but the fact is he wasnt trying to fight the best. Johnson was seen as the best, like it or not. So you can get out of here with your silly opinion when the facts have been laid out in front of you.}

That's an unfair assessment of men you never knew nor know the personal history of. You blanketed these men with a biased 21st century temperament, with no regard for the political and social temeraments of their day.

Cowards, as you imply, don't climb through the ropes to begin with.

Plus his statement was in regards to the 'sanctioning body' rules that was recognizing him.

Do not fighters' today respect the demands of the 'strap' they are holding?

Who knows what he would of done ($$$) had Johnson been avaiable to fight.

[JAB5239]

That's an unfair assessment of men you never knew nor know the personal history of. You blanketed these men with a biased 21st century temperament, with no regard for the political and social temeraments of their day.

Cowards, as you imply, don't climb through the ropes to begin with.

Plus his statement was in regards to the 'sanctioning body' rules that was recognizing him.

Do not fighters' today respect the demands of the 'strap' they are holding?

Who knows what he would of done ($$$) had Johnson been avaiable to fight.

First off I never said nor implied McCarty was a coward. My response was a rebuttal to Z saying he thought Johnson ducked McCarty, to which evidence is to the contrary. Do I have to know someone personally to come to the conclusion that the "white heavyweight champion " was created because it was easier than trying to win the true and lineal championship from Johnson? I don't think so. I don't care about the times as it has no bearing on Z saying Johnson ducked McCarty, when in fact this is not true.

And Johnson was available to fight. I posted the quote of Johnson calling McCarty out and Luther using the whote championship to hide behind. Look at it this way. If there were no bogus title he would have had to fight Johnson if he wanted to be champion. That he used that BS to not fight him........please!!!

[JAB5239]

That's an unfair assessment of men you never knew nor know the personal history of. You blanketed these men with a biased 21st century temperament, with no regard for the political and social temeraments of their day.

Cowards, as you imply, don't climb through the ropes to begin with.

Plus his statement was in regards to the 'sanctioning body' rules that was recognizing him.

Do not fighters' today respect the demands of the 'strap' they are holding?

Who knows what he would of done ($$$) had Johnson been avaiable to fight.

Here's a question. If the "white" heavyweight championship wasn't created by insecure and racist men because they feared Johnson, than why did it cease to exist after Willard beat Johnson?

[JAB5239]

[Willie Pep 229]

Here's a question. If the "white" heavyweight championship wasn't created by insecure and racist men because they feared Johnson, than why did it cease to exist after Willard beat Johnson?

Maybe because Johnson was on the run and entire fight game was suffering, because we all know that the fight game goes as the HWs go.

Now, looking at the Willard fight through a different lenz we can see that 'whites' preferred a White Hope over a 'white champion' so once Johnson was finally avaiable they dumped the unwanted white champion and quickly returned to a White Hope.

White fighters were not running away from Johnson, Johnson was running away from the law and something needed to be done.

So I repeat, if white fighters were so frightened by black fighters why didn't they just keep the fight game segregated? Easy answer, because they didn't want to.

They wanted to beat 'the Negro' in ring, thus they kept looking for a White Hope (even when they had a white champion) and as soon as they found a chance to beat Johnson they took it.

Where these men racist? Absolutely, but it is merely your conjecture that they feared black fighters.

The fact that Willard went to Havana to fight Johnson shows us they preferred to beat him, not run from him.

The white HW champion was a place holder, waiting for Johnson to become available. A White Hope is what they really wanted.