The Colour Line In Boxing And It's History

[QueensburyRules]

The Milk Fund Exhibition was on 4th July 1918
Dempsey was already contracted to fight Porky Flynn 2 days later in Phliadelphia.

Your statement " Jeannette was already inactive, nor did he ever return to the ring for another fight again," is totally wrong.
Johnson had fought Jack Thompson on1st of April of that year and would fight 6 times that year .

Jeannette fought and beat Kid Norfolk14 days after the Milk Fund debacle.

Jeannette fought until1922 having his last fight on the first of June of that year.
Yer Welcome!!!!

- - Just checked, and indeed you're spot on.

That's the thing about boxrec, ie changing ratings, records and record details. Been a few years, but Joe used to be inactive until now where he finishes his career strong, Used to be JJohnson finished his career KOed by a featherweight named Walter....... from Boston I think it was. All gone today, so I maybe I need to be more careful with sweeping statements.

Amazing

No matter, Milk Fund Organizers for this event sound su****iously derelict.

[Ivich]

- - Just checked, and indeed you're spot on.

That's the thing about boxrec, ie changing ratings, records and record details. Been a few years, but Joe used to be inactive until now where he finishes his career strong, Used to be JJohnson finished his career KOed by a featherweight named Walter....... from Boston I think it was. All gone today, so I maybe I need to be more careful with sweeping statements.

Amazing

No matter, Milk Fund Organizers for this event sound su****iously derelict.

Johnson had a fight in the back of a saloon with one Walter Price ,Price beat him.Whether that was Johnson's last appearance in a ring in a real fight I don't know. I first read about it in an old Boxing Illustrated.
Nice to see you admit your error ,we all make them,I as much as anyone.
The blame for the Milk Fund balls up was laid squarely at Dumb Dan Morgan and Dan McKektrick Jeannette's manager.

Just looked this up on CBZ

1938 Sep 1 Walter Price Boston, Ma LT 7

Johnson was born on March 1st 1878 .That makes him 60 years old at the time.

[Willie Pep 229]

Johnson had a fight in the back of a saloon with one Walter Price ,Price beat him.Whether that was Johnson's last appearance in a ring in a real fight I don't know. I first read about it in an old Boxing Illustrated.
Nice to see you admit your error ,we all make them,I as much as anyone.
The blame for the Milk Fund balls up was laid squarely at Dumb Dan Morgan and Dan McKektrick Jeannette's manager.

Just looked this up on CBZ

1938 Sep 1 Walter Price Boston, Ma LT 7

Johnson was born on March 1st 1878 .That makes him 60 years old at the time.

I don't think there anything dumb about McKetrick. I think it was a smart move that could have paid big.

Dempsey-Jeanette go toe to toe for four rounds and then Dempsey takes out Fulton/Willard.

All Jeannette had to do was not be carried out of the ring that night and just maybe he gets a shot. At least a better chance at a shot than Wills got.

Mcketrick was smart, Kearns smarter. Both evil.

P.S. No, Dempsey should never have taken the fight. He worked too hard to get to that point than to risk throwing it away on a four round exhibition. If Dempsey looks bad he risks losing the title shot. Besides no fighter deserves to be ambushed, e.g Louis-Davis.

[Ivich]

I don't think there anything dumb about McKetrick. I think it was a smart move that could have paid big.

Dempsey-Jeanette go toe to toe for four rounds and then Dempsey takes out Fulton/Willard.

All Jeannette had to do was not be carried out of the ring that night and just maybe he gets a shot. At least a better chance at a shot than Wills got.

Mcketrick was smart, Kearns smarter. Both evil.

P.S. No, Dempsey should never have taken the fight. He worked too hard to get to that point than to risk throwing it away on a four round exhibition. If Dempsey looks bad he risks losing the title shot. Besides no fighter deserves to be ambushed, e.g Louis-Davis.

McKetrick had an ungovernable temper and could not abide being thwarted.Frank Moran told him they were through and McKetrick in a rage tied up all the money from the Moran v Johnson fight and nobody saw a cent of it .
He was unscrupulous and vindictive but imo he wasn't smart.

[Willie Pep 229]

McKetrick had an ungovernable temper and could not abide being thwarted.Frank Moran told him they were through and McKetrick in a rage tied up all the money from the Moran v Johnson fight and nobody saw a cent of it .
He was unscrupulous and vindictive but imo he wasn't smart.

Yea when he couldn't get a commitment out of Moran for multiple fights he for some reason screwed everyone, including himself. He informed and (the US and French authorities) they came and took the whole gate.

I heard once that Moran, decades later, near death was still bemoaning that he never got paid for the fight. He tried to sue several times but never got a cent.

But yea McKetrick was one of those guys that would give up his take just to spite an enemy.

Some say the night of the Milk Fund Charity he bribed Bonds to feint an injury and step aside at the last moment so he could insert Jeannette. But that's the kind of thing we can never really prove.

[travestyny]

I see it as the seeds of doubt were sown. At that time when the color line existed many fighters that would not give title shots MAY have experienced doubt and worry. Not out of physical fear of a black opponent, but because of backlash from friends, family and the white community in general. They didn't want to chance the possibility of shame by losing to a black man that was as a race looked down upon and thought to be less than the white race. This goes for white promoters and managers as well. It was especially prevalent as heavyweight as that was the greatest prize in the world. This of course is me taking a stab at this as I am no sociologist.

Bingo. Exactly as I see it.

[Ivich]

Yea when he couldn't get a commitment out of Moran for multiple fights he for some reason screwed everyone, including himself. He informed and (the US and French authorities) they came and took the whole gate.

I heard once that Moran, decades later, near death was still bemoaning that he never got paid for the fight. He tried to sue several times but never got a cent.

But yea McKetrick was one of those guys that would give up his take just to spite an enemy.

Some say the night of the Milk Fund Charity he bribed Bonds to feint an injury and step aside at the last moment so he could insert Jeannette. But that's the kind of thing we can never really prove.

That is Adam Pollack's take on it which he mentions in his excellent Jack Dempsey bio vol1.

[historical boxing society]

Honestly I would view this from the beginning long before Jack Johnson or Dempsey.
How thing's would of Unfolded if We didn't have #1 Bigot in Boxing in Charge in John L Sullivan.
It's pretty Obvious that Peter Jackson should of been Champion (if he was given the chance).

John L logic seemed to leak into the days after he was gone...with Jim Corbett.
Corbett seemed pretty friendly towards Jackson in the newspaper's giving hope a fight would arise.
But all he was "a big talker"

I often spent quite a bit of time thinking If Peter Jackson the essence of Class would of represented the first Black Champion how almost every domino that fell afterwards would of changed.

Most of the other weight classes from Welterweight up to lightheavy in 1890's were making no big deal about fighting with mixed races. After Sullivan.
I think it would of had a HUGE impact on the Heavyweights if they had a black champion long before Jack Johnson.

All of this for me...traces back to John L Sullivan he was the worst "example" in Heavyweight History to be it's first superstar. That's just my thoughts

[max baer]

I see it as the seeds of doubt were sown. At that time when the color line existed many fighters that would not give title shots MAY have experienced doubt and worry. Not out of physical fear of a black opponent, but because of backlash from friends, family and the white community in general. They didn't want to chance the possibility of shame by losing to a black man that was as a race looked down upon and thought to be less than the white race. This goes for white promoters and managers as well. It was especially prevalent as heavyweight as that was the greatest prize in the world. This of course is me taking a stab at this as I am no sociologist.

And that was the case with joe louis against max schmelling. The ****'s felt the white man should show his gifts were superior to the black man.

[Willie Pep 229]

I see it as the seeds of doubt were sown. At that time when the color line existed many fighters that would not give title shots MAY have experienced doubt and worry. Not out of physical fear of a black opponent, but because of backlash from friends, family and the white community in general. They didn't want to chance the possibility of shame by losing to a black man that was as a race looked down upon and thought to be less than the white race. This goes for white promoters and managers as well. It was especially prevalent as heavyweight as that was the greatest prize in the world. This of course is me taking a stab at this as I am no sociologist.

Two things . . .

I think it eventually became, even early on, solely a HW Campion issue.

No doubt the prejudices were there with the lighter weights, in the form of revenue, opportunity, and even at times, not being allowed to win. But the fights were there, at least in the North and far west.

Second: I mentioned before, for all its wrongs (the color line) Jack Johnson still became HW Champion in 1908.

The whole damn thing didn't really begin until Corbett-Sullivan in 1892.

Example: On the Corbett-Sullivan under-card (the day before) George Dixon is carried around the ring for winning the featherweight title over a white challenger. That was in 1892; a loved black champion.

Just 16 years, and only four HW Champions later, a black man wins the HW title.

So just how prohibitive was this color line?