The Colour Line In Boxing And It's History

[Incapable]

look queeny, i am not going to be like other people and say "oh queeny you are so misguided and fool hardy" you see. I'm not going to be like others and say you got your boxing knowledge on the back of a *** box.
do you see? I'm not going to say "queeny doesn't know jack about boxing I wish he would bog off"
I wont say that because i believe that everyone deserves the chance to speak. even those who simply don't know bog all about boxing history.

Well said, mate.
I know he's a bit of a pain but he has a right to speak. I've also got the right to think he's up his own ass end, but that's neither here nor there.

[max baer]

Well said, mate.
I know he's a bit of a pain but he has a right to speak. I've also got the right to think he's up his own ass end, but that's neither here nor there.

he is also the greatest heel on this forum by far and i love him. he is creating debate.

[travestyny]

[QUOTE=Willie Pep 229;n31798103]

OK so let's get back to your OP that I digressed from (sorry).

You genuinely seem to feel that white fighters avoided black fighters mostly out of fear of defeat.

(Yes I remember that you went with #3 on my list which is a different argument, but let's go back to your OP instead.)

Tell me how you see that in the fight game; why you see it that way.

The big names that usually get pushed around here (Boxing Scence) as color line duckers are: Dempsey, Jeffries, Corbett, Sullivan, Tunney, Jack Johnson (ironic).

The big victims of the color line are usually sited as being: Langford, Jeannette, Wills, Peter Jackson.

Certainly there are others as well so please feel free to add to either list, but go with you opinion. I'm reading and won't digress twice.

Why didn't Dempsey fight Wills? In my opinion, it's because he was afraid to lose to a Black fighter. His wife was a racist and would have never looked at him the same. His legacy would have went the way of Jeffries where a large amount of Whites would have pressured him to somehow uphold White Superiority. I believe he wanted to avoid that pressure at all costs. We know he could have fought Wills if he really wanted to. You will say no, but the public was begging for it, promoters were throwing offers all over the place, and Wills wanted it anytime, anyplace. Commissions tried to force it. There were injunctions to prevent any other fight from happening. Dempsey clearly was content with that one passing by.


Also, his own quotation when accosted by Joe Jeannette in MSG was that he would fight ANY WHITE MAN, but never agreed to fight a COLORED BOY. I think that says a lot about Dempsey's reluctance being based on race.

[max baer]

[QUOTE=Trav;n31798296]

Why didn't Dempsey fight Wills? In my opinion, it's because he was afraid to lose to a Black fighter. His wife was a racist and would have never looked at him the same. His legacy would have went the way of Jeffries where a large amount of Whites would have pressured him to somehow uphold White Superiority. I believe he wanted to avoid that pressure at all costs. We know he could have fought Wills if he really wanted to. You will say no, but the public was begging for it, promoters were throwing offers all over the place, and Wills wanted it anytime, anyplace. Commissions tried to force it. There were injunctions to prevent any other fight from happening. Dempsey clearly was content with that one passing by.


Also, his own quotation when accosted by Joe Jeannette in MSG was that he would fight ANY WHITE MAN, but never agreed to fight a COLORED BOY. I think that says a lot about Dempsey's reluctance being based on race.

now that's knowledge!

[QueensburyRules]

[QUOTE=Trav;n31798296]

Why didn't Dempsey fight Wills? In my opinion, it's because he was afraid to lose to a Black fighter. His wife was a racist and would have never looked at him the same. His legacy would have went the way of Jeffries where a large amount of Whites would have pressured him to somehow uphold White Superiority. I believe he wanted to avoid that pressure at all costs. We know he could have fought Wills if he really wanted to. You will say no, but the public was begging for it, promoters were throwing offers all over the place, and Wills wanted it anytime, anyplace. Commissions tried to force it. There were injunctions to prevent any other fight from happening. Dempsey clearly was content with that one passing by.


Also, his own quotation when accosted by Joe Jeannette in MSG was that he would fight ANY WHITE MAN, but never agreed to fight a COLORED BOY. I think that says a lot about Dempsey's reluctance being based on race.

- - Teensy in da house again...

[Willie Pep 229]

[QUOTE=nathan sturley;n31798313]

now that's knowledge!

- "'knowledge" because TravestyNY agreed with you on racism.

Dempsey wife Estelle Taylor (the above susposed racist) is quoted in the New York Times in 1925 that she felt her husband's next fight should be Harry Wills.

If you just want to feel good about yourself then you should definitely throw in with Trav. He loves to bash Dempsey and call him a coward.

I still say if you truly want to understand the color line you need to do some serious reading.

But I am now suspect whether it is knowledge you are looking for, or just conformation. If it's the latter Trav's your guy.

[travestyny]

- "'knowledge" because TravestyNY agreed with you on racism.

Dempsey wife Estelle Taylor (the above susposed racist) is quoted in the New York Times in 1925 that she felt her husband's next fight should be Harry Wills.

If you just want to feel good about yourself then you should definitely throw in with Trav. He loves to bash Dempsey and call him a coward.

I still say if you truly want to understand the color line you need to do some serious reading.

But I am now suspect whether it is knowledge you are looking for, or just conformation. If it's the latter Trav's your guy.

Yes, the "supposed racist" that Dempsey says called wills a "Slack Jawed N-word," leaving him shocked and appalled.

She may have said Wills should be next. Dempsey also said Wills was the only man he wanted to face since becoming champ....but his actions proved differently.

[max baer]

[QUOTE=Willie Pep 229;n31798482]

- "'knowledge" because TravestyNY agreed with you on racism.

Dempsey wife Estelle Taylor (the above susposed racist) is quoted in the New York Times in 1925 that she felt her husband's next fight should be Harry Wills.

If you just want to feel good about yourself then you should definitely throw in with Trav. He loves to bash Dempsey and call him a coward.

I still say if you truly want to understand the color line you need to do some serious reading.

But I am now suspect whether it is knowledge you are looking for, or just conformation. If it's the latter Trav's your guy.

you are immensely knowledgeable too. people need to argue as that is the point here. you are the best at providing evidence and good research and i respect you a lot. i hope more people join in this debate as it is a very contentious subject.

[Willie Pep 229]

[QUOTE=nathan sturley;n31798496]

you are immensely knowledgeable too. people need to argue as that is the point here. you are the best at providing evidence and good research and i respect you a lot. i hope more people join in this debate as it is a very contentious subject.

LOL Learn to quote - I hate having my name associated with that cherry picked history that now looks like I said it.

Look up the 1916 Jean Jeannette- Dempsey incident - Milk Fund Charity Exhibition, Madison Square Garden and see if the cherry picked quote is, to you, a true and just interpretation of what happened that night.

Then rethink your source.

[travestyny]

LOL Learn to quote - I hate having my name associated with that cherry picked history that now looks like I said it.

Look up the 1916 Jean Jeannette- Dempsey incident - Milk Fund Charity Exhibition, Madison Square Garden and see if the cherry picked quote is, to you, a true and just interpretation of what happened that night.

Then rethink your source.

What "cherry picked quotation" are you referring to?

The only quotation I provided was from an article that Dempsey himself was given credit for writing.

The Called Me a Bum
by Jack Dempsey as told to John B. Kennedy (September 1925)

"I'll fight any white man they put on, but I didn't agree to fight a colored boy."