Top 20 Heavyweight of all time list agree or disagree

[Willie Pep 229]

form the Italian Heritage site:

Rocky's connection with the Mafia has often troubled biographers. Rocky Marciano knew the mafiosi of course, because the Mob controlled the boxing world.

Once he was proposed to sell a match, in 1955, against Englishman Don ****ell, in San Francisco. One of Marciano's close friends, Ed Napoli, recalls he sat with Marciano in a hotel room and listened while a gangster made him an offer. "Rocky, you can be set the rest of your life if you throw this fight, you can beat him in the rematch." the mobster told him. At this, Marciano got angry, and ordered the mobster out. "You disgust me, I'm ashamed that you're Italian. Get outta here and don't come back." The fight ended in the ninth round, with ****ell crawling in search of the referee's arms.

The order came from Chicago, Milwaukee, Philadelphia: "Keep him clean, do not get him dirty." The mafiosi were convinced Rocky had to remain clean, spotless. He was respectful, kissed on both cheeks godfathers Raymond Patriarca, Carlo Gambino, Frank Costello. The Mafia invited Rocky to lunch, advised him tailors, bought him clothes and shirts. He also went to visit Vito Genovese, on the point of death in prison in Leavenworth: Don Vito had asked the favor to see the footage of his matches.

The mob guys respected him, loved him because he represented what they really wanted to be, the toughest in the world, the machos. He was a myth for the Mafia, their idol: a macho, a warrior, a paisan.

Yea the mob thought it important that Marciano stay clean. That didn't apply that to the little guys.

We Italians only got one Governor (Mario) and one Supreme Court Justice (Anton).

The Governor's son screwed up and tarnished that reputation and the Judge was an intellectual lightweight.

The Irish got themselves a President, Blacks a president, and it looks like the Latinos are going to beat us to the White House with DeSantis, as well.

Rocky was almost as important to the Italian community as Louis was to the Black community, almost.

What is amazing is that Carbo and Palermo controlled boxing and through the IBC controlled Al Weill as well. Al Weill controlled Marciano. Yet, all three, as the story goes, where told you can dirty anyone, except Marciano. At threat of your health. So the story goes.

Who knows the truth? There has got to be at least five different big name mobsters who claim they invented 'point shaving' back in 1949. Gangsters are all great liars.

P.S. I don't think it was Chicago, but New York (Lucchese) that controlled the IBC (Carbo).

P.S.S. That didn't mean they couldn't rob him. Weill had him signed to a 50% lifetime contract. (The same type of crap Dorsey tried to pull with Sinatra.)

Rocky never forgave Weill for forcing him to accept purse parity with Walcott for the rematch.

[WillieWild114]

Lol most heavyweights today aren't huge, they are fat. if you mean their heights, there are been tons of 6'5 heavyweights since the 1970's. Second the heavyweight division is worse compared to the top heavyweights from the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's and early 2000's. But these guys are still heavyweights while Rocky Marciano was a 5'10 180 pound fighter. So even the worst heavyweights now would beat Rocky Marciano. Third Rocky Marciano isn't a all time great heavyweight because he isn't a heavyweight by modern standards. 4th Even if you were comparing him to other 180 pound boxers he wouldn't be all time great. Rocky Marciano's best opponents were a old Archie Moore, A old Joe Louis, A old Ezzard Charles and a old Jersey Joe Walcott. When you best wins are against old men then you can't be considered great or even good. 5th there is a thing called the internet. You could find that Rocky Marciano's career was controlled by the mob and the fact that you didn't know this pretty much shows you aren't a real boxing and that you only like Rocky Marciano for a obvious reason. 6th I will now longer respond to any person who is a biased Rocky Marciano fan.

We reallly dont know if the worst Heavyweights would beat Marciano there are guys capable beating guys waaaaaay bigger than him. If the Mob is the reason he won all those fights he is definitely discredited but we will never truly know. Stop mentioning his size it's irrelevant to this conversation he was a certified Heavyweight at that time and he beat many guys 200 lb+ you mentioning his size is equivalent to saying Bill Russell was not a real center because he was 6'9.

[JAB5239]

We reallly dont know if the worst Heavyweights would beat Marciano there are guys capable beating guys waaaaaay bigger than him. If the Mob is the reason he won all those fights he is definitely discredited but we will never truly know. Stop mentioning his size it's irrelevant to this conversation he was a certified Heavyweight at that time and he beat many guys 200 lb+ you mentioning his size is equivalent to saying Bill Russell was not a real center because he was 6'9.

The mob most certainly is not the reason.

[Ivich]

Yea the mob thought it important that Marciano stay clean. That didn't apply that to the little guys.

We Italians only got one Governor (Mario) and one Supreme Court Justice (Anton).

The Governor's son screwed up and tarnished that reputation and the Judge was an intellectual lightweight.

The Irish got themselves a President, Blacks a president, and it looks like the Latinos are going to beat us to the White House with DeSantis, as well.

Rocky was almost as important to the Italian community as Louis was to the Black community, almost.

What is amazing is that Carbo and Palermo controlled boxing and through the IBC controlled Al Weill as well. Al Weill controlled Marciano. Yet, all three, as the story goes, where told you can dirty anyone, except Marciano. At threat of your health. So the story goes.

Who knows the truth? There has got to be at least five different big name mobsters who claim they invented 'point shaving' back in 1949. Gangsters are all great liars.

P.S. I don't think it was Chicago, but New York (Lucchese) that controlled the IBC (Carbo).

P.S.S. That didn't mean they couldn't rob him. Weill had him signed to a 50% lifetime contract. (The same type of crap Dorsey tried to pull with Sinatra.)

Rocky never forgave Weill for forcing him to accept purse parity with Walcott for the rematch.

Rocky did not get purse parity with Walcott in their2nd fight.Walcott got more than Marciano.Marciano got $166,000,
Walcott nearly$100,000 more.

[Willie Pep 229]

Rocky did not get purse parity with Walcott in their2nd fight.Walcott got more than Marciano.Marciano got $166,000,
Walcott nearly$100,000 more.

Wow that is the worst I have ever heard. Maybe that's after Weill?

I know Walcott really heldout and got himself a good deal. But that is kind of amazing for a black fighter, in 1953.

Either way, they say Marciano never forgave him for the slight.**

I do know there is a wonderful episode of To Bet Your Life, where Rocky leaves Grouch Marx speechless (jokeless) when he calls Al Weil a thief on live 1950s TV.

Live TV must have been great.

** The Duva family lost Bramble because they made him take parity for the Mancini rematch. After Rosario, King didn't gain much in stealing him.

[Willow The Wisp]

form the Italian Heritage site:

Rocky's connection with the Mafia has often troubled biographers. Rocky Marciano knew the mafiosi of course, because the Mob controlled the boxing world.

Once he was proposed to sell a match, in 1955, against Englishman Don ****ell, in San Francisco. One of Marciano's close friends, Ed Napoli, recalls he sat with Marciano in a hotel room and listened while a gangster made him an offer. "Rocky, you can be set the rest of your life if you throw this fight, you can beat him in the rematch." the mobster told him. At this, Marciano got angry, and ordered the mobster out. "You disgust me, I'm ashamed that you're Italian. Get outta here and don't come back." The fight ended in the ninth round, with ****ell crawling in search of the referee's arms.

The order came from Chicago, Milwaukee, Philadelphia: "Keep him clean, do not get him dirty." The mafiosi were convinced Rocky had to remain clean, spotless. He was respectful, kissed on both cheeks godfathers Raymond Patriarca, Carlo Gambino, Frank Costello. The Mafia invited Rocky to lunch, advised him tailors, bought him clothes and shirts. He also went to visit Vito Genovese, on the point of death in prison in Leavenworth: Don Vito had asked the favor to see the footage of his matches.

The mob guys respected him, loved him because he represented what they really wanted to be, the toughest in the world, the machos. He was a myth for the Mafia, their idol: a macho, a warrior, a paisan.

There is so much B.S. in the world. People can't get enough. Can't sling enough.
Thank you for making sure people here, especially and younger boxing fans, are told the truth one in awhile.

These guys idolized Marciano, Dimaggio, Sinatra.
These guys dreamed of being what Marciano was....

[DeeMoney]

Notable opponents means other memorable great opponents they defeated in the opponent's prime.Everything I listed added up nothing greater than the other.

My point is, what defines "notable" or for that case 'memorable' or 'great'? These are very ambiguous terms that most likely rely on a sliding scale to evaluate. Its a lot of undefined variables, that even when defined remain vague.

[shawnkemp804]

We reallly dont know if the worst Heavyweights would beat Marciano there are guys capable beating guys waaaaaay bigger than him. If the Mob is the reason he won all those fights he is definitely discredited but we will never truly know. Stop mentioning his size it's irrelevant to this conversation he was a certified Heavyweight at that time and he beat many guys 200 lb+ you mentioning his size is equivalent to saying Bill Russell was not a real center because he was 6'9.

Right but Rocky Marciano didn't beat guys much bigger than him. Rocky Marciano didn't even beat guys his own size who were world class elite fighters who were still in their primes. Lol Bill Russell was almost 6'10. Most Centers today are around 6'9 to 6'10. I can tell you aren't a legit sports fan by you even bringing up basketball players height when current basketball players are measured in their shoes and back in the day they were measure barefooted. Russell was just as tall as Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond and tons of other guys who play center in the NBA today.

No current heavyweight is 5'10 180 pounds. But size doesn't matter right? Great then Floyd Mayweather could beat Rocky Marciano. If Floyd could beat hall of fame Manny Pac then Rocky Marciano could be no problem right? Floyd Mayweather also stopped guys like Diego Corrales so knocking out Marciano would be no problem. Floyd vs Marciano equals Floyd by knockout because weight classes don't matter in boxing.

[JAB5239]

Right but Rocky Marciano didn't beat guys much bigger than him. Rocky Marciano didn't even beat guys his own size who were world class elite fighters who were still in their primes. Lol Bill Russell was almost 6'10. Most Centers today are around 6'9 to 6'10. I can tell you aren't a legit sports fan by you even bringing up basketball players height when current basketball players are measured in their shoes and back in the day they were measure barefooted. Russell was just as tall as Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond and tons of other guys who play center in the NBA today.

No current heavyweight is 5'10 180 pounds. But size doesn't matter right? Great then Floyd Mayweather could beat Rocky Marciano. If Floyd could beat hall of fame Manny Pac then Rocky Marciano could be no problem right? Floyd Mayweather also stopped guys like Diego Corrales so knocking out Marciano would be no problem. Floyd vs Marciano equals Floyd by knockout because weight classes don't matter in boxing.

You're an idiot. The fact you are completely missing his point proves this.

[Willie Pep 229]

You're an idiot. The fact you are completely missing his point proves this.

Wait, I don't know, maybe he's not. That's one hell of an argument he's got there --> there is a shoe-height conspiracy in the NBA. --> "Sneakergate."

This throws a monkey wrench into the entire field of anthropology.

How can you possibly argue with this point?

P.S. If in your time wasting conversations with this guy you should, by chance, happen to stumble upon how NBA center heights' explains any aspect of prize fighting, get back to me.