Top 20 Heavyweight of all time list agree or disagree

[QueensburyRules]

Great but this isn't the 1950's. So what worked back then doesn't work now. So again because these people were considered heavyweights back then doesn't mean they could compete against heavyweights now. The list is greatest heavyweights of all time. Now which heavyweight was good for their era. It is like saying George Mikan was better than Shaquille O'Neal, David Robinson, or Hakeem Olajawon because Mikan was considered great in his era. Mikan couldn't even make a college team today. The skill level of basketball has evolved.

Lol Rocky Marciano wasn't even good for his own era. He was a Italian guy who had the mafia's backing so they hand picked his opponents and had him fight tomato cans, mob controlled fighters and old men. But again you are a Rocky Marciano fanboy so I won't even try to disgust boxing with people who so biased. I am not going to respond to you again.

- - Shaq really only 6-7, so he can't be greater than 6-10 Mikan.

Grade school arithmetic U can understand...

[JAB5239]

Lol most heavyweights today aren't huge, they are fat. if you mean their heights, there are been tons of 6'5 heavyweights since the 1970's. Second the heavyweight division is worse compared to the top heavyweights from the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's and early 2000's. But these guys are still heavyweights while Rocky Marciano was a 5'10 180 pound fighter. So even the worst heavyweights now would beat Rocky Marciano. Third Rocky Marciano isn't a all time great heavyweight because he isn't a heavyweight by modern standards. 4th Even if you were comparing him to other 180 pound boxers he wouldn't be all time great. Rocky Marciano's best opponents were a old Archie Moore, A old Joe Louis, A old Ezzard Charles and a old Jersey Joe Walcott. When you best wins are against old men then you can't be considered great or even good. 5th there is a thing called the internet. You could find that Rocky Marciano's career was controlled by the mob and the fact that you didn't know this pretty much shows you aren't a real boxing and that you only like Rocky Marciano for a obvious reason. 6th I will now longer respond to any person who is a biased Rocky Marciano fan.

form the Italian Heritage site:

Rocky's connection with the Mafia has often troubled biographers. Rocky Marciano knew the mafiosi of course, because the Mob controlled the boxing world.

Once he was proposed to sell a match, in 1955, against Englishman Don ****ell, in San Francisco. One of Marciano's close friends, Ed Napoli, recalls he sat with Marciano in a hotel room and listened while a gangster made him an offer. "Rocky, you can be set the rest of your life if you throw this fight, you can beat him in the rematch." the mobster told him. At this, Marciano got angry, and ordered the mobster out. "You disgust me, I'm ashamed that you're Italian. Get outta here and don't come back." The fight ended in the ninth round, with ****ell crawling in search of the referee's arms.

The order came from Chicago, Milwaukee, Philadelphia: "Keep him clean, do not get him dirty." The mafiosi were convinced Rocky had to remain clean, spotless. He was respectful, kissed on both cheeks godfathers Raymond Patriarca, Carlo Gambino, Frank Costello. The Mafia invited Rocky to lunch, advised him tailors, bought him clothes and shirts. He also went to visit Vito Genovese, on the point of death in prison in Leavenworth: Don Vito had asked the favor to see the footage of his matches.

The mob guys respected him, loved him because he represented what they really wanted to be, the toughest in the world, the machos. He was a myth for the Mafia, their idol: a macho, a warrior, a paisan.

[Ivich]

form the Italian Heritage site:

Rocky's connection with the Mafia has often troubled biographers. Rocky Marciano knew the mafiosi of course, because the Mob controlled the boxing world.

Once he was proposed to sell a match, in 1955, against Englishman Don ****ell, in San Francisco. One of Marciano's close friends, Ed Napoli, recalls he sat with Marciano in a hotel room and listened while a gangster made him an offer. "Rocky, you can be set the rest of your life if you throw this fight, you can beat him in the rematch." the mobster told him. At this, Marciano got angry, and ordered the mobster out. "You disgust me, I'm ashamed that you're Italian. Get outta here and don't come back." The fight ended in the ninth round, with ****ell crawling in search of the referee's arms.

The order came from Chicago, Milwaukee, Philadelphia: "Keep him clean, do not get him dirty." The mafiosi were convinced Rocky had to remain clean, spotless. He was respectful, kissed on both cheeks godfathers Raymond Patriarca, Carlo Gambino, Frank Costello. The Mafia invited Rocky to lunch, advised him tailors, bought him clothes and shirts. He also went to visit Vito Genovese, on the point of death in prison in Leavenworth: Don Vito had asked the favor to see the footage of his matches.

The mob guys respected him, loved him because he represented what they really wanted to be, the toughest in the world, the machos. He was a myth for the Mafia, their idol: a macho, a warrior, a paisan.

I don't believe Marciano would ever contemplate taking a dive.How much Marciano benefited from being associated with Frankie Carbo is hard to determine, Carbo ran Al Weill Rocky's manager.Weill was the Garden match maker put in place by Carbo and Norris,did Rocky benefit from this when he got a controversial decision against Lastarza.Was there foul play in Rocky getting the decision over Ted Lowry 1 st time around? Who knows? I don't think Marciano was anymore mobbed up than lots of other fighters in the 40's and 50's Guys like Castellani,Graziano,Oma,Beshore and later Giardello,Jordan, and Basilio

[Ivich]

The moment somebody makes a stop heavyweight list and they mention 170-180 pound guys like Rocky Marciano, Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles ect. you can't take that person's boxing knowledge seriously. Also when a person mentions a boxer from the late 1800's/early 1900's are all time greats you realize how clueless so many boxing fans are. Boxing has evolved since those times. Those guys were good for their era. That doesn't equate to all time greats,

I guess Eddie Futch,Manny Steward,and Ray Arcel were clueless then.

Tell us which champions you have trained?

[Ivich]

Right but 180 pounds isn't considered heavyweight anymore lol. Also the last time I checked Muhammad Ali, Prime George Foreman, Ken Norton, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko ect weren't fat.

But anyway kid 180 pounds wasn't good enough to be a heavyweight since the early 1960's.

Which heavyweight champions since Tommy Burns time weighed 180lbs?

[JAB5239]

I don't believe Marciano would ever contemplate taking a dive.How much Marciano benefited from being associated with Frankie Carbo is hard to determine, Carbo ran Al Weill Rocky's manager.Weill was the Garden match maker put in place by Carbo and Norris,did Rocky benefit from this when he got a controversial decision against Lastarza.Was there foul play in Rocky getting the decision over Ted Lowry 1 st time around? Who knows? I don't think Marciano was anymore mobbed up than lots of other fighters in the 40's and 50's Guys like Castellani,Graziano,Oma,Beshore and later Giardello,Jordan, and Basilio

I've read several accounts where it said the mob backed off out of respect. Either way nothing has ever been proven. There have been so many bad decisions in boxing that someone is always trying to lay blame somewhere (including myself).....Don King, The Mafia, Seoul Korea, Germany, Vegas....hell one guy even insists a fighter once lost because he was poisoned even though the hospital and doctors reports directly contradict that and prove otherwise. My point is, there are going to be people that think they see things that no one else can even when there is no proof. Rocky knew mob made guys, so what? In New England it's not uncommon, especially if you're Italian. I knew plenty of them growing up including Raymond Patriarca before he passed away. My father's best friend was Bobo Ma****se. I can assure you my father was neither a mobster, nor was his business mob controlled because he knew these men. People's paranoia and assumptions control their ability to think rationally.

[Ivich]

I've read several accounts where it said the mob backed off out of respect. Either way nothing has ever been proven. There have been so many bad decisions in boxing that someone is always trying to lay blame somewhere (including myself).....Don King, The Mafia, Seoul Korea, Germany, Vegas....hell one guy even insists a fighter once lost because he was poisoned even though the hospital and doctors reports directly contradict that and prove otherwise. My point is, there are going to be people that think they see things that no one else can even when there is no proof. Rocky knew mob made guys, so what? In New England it's not uncommon, especially if you're Italian. I knew plenty of them growing up including Raymond Patriarca before he passed away. My father's best friend was Bobo Ma****se. I can assure you my father was neither a mobster, nor was his business mob controlled because he knew these men. People's paranoia and assumptions control their ability to think rationally.

I'm in agreement with you.As to excuses Wlad had one when he lost a particular fight and it was totally disproved.

[QueensburyRules]

I'm in agreement with you.As to excuses Wlad had one when he lost a particular fight and it was totally disproved.

- - Being drugged ain't no excuse. It's a fact, Jackson...

[JAB5239]

- - Being drugged ain't no excuse. It's a fact, Jackson...

Whatever you say. Show us the toxicology report saying he was drugged. I bet you dont!!

Conspiracy theories abound!

[Ivich]

- - Being drugged ain't no excuse. It's a fact, Jackson...

No actually it isnt ,as you would know if your read Dr Margaret Goodman's toxicology report and George Kimball's in depth examination of this subject as I have,but of course you haven't done that, and you won't.
It's just too much trouble for you to get informed on a subject isn't it.