When did the fight game change: Cuts?

[Willie Pep 229]

When did they start 'prematurely' stopping fights because of cuts.

Today Marciano-Charles II is never allowed continue. Charles becomes the first HW to regain the title; TKO 7

As late as the late '60s fights like Ali-Mildenberger or Benvenuti-Rodriguez were allowed to continue.

Today cuts of that caliber would bring about a stoppage. Agree or disagree?

If agreed, when did it change? Was their an announcement; did it follow a ring death, was it just more of HBO slowly sanitizing the game?

Was there a lawsuit (LOL) or was it just a slippery woke slope into the 21st Century?

I didn't get the memo.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Not sure any of that applies consistently, Pep.

Seems to me too often fights are stopped when either the doc, commish, or ref decides to stop no matter the state of the fighter.

[GhostofDempsey]

I would say boxing began it's safety first approach we know today shortly after the Mancini/Kim fight in 1982. Title fights went from 15 to 12 rounds shortly after, and refs started taking a more active approach in stopping fights on cuts or a fighter taking too many punches. Even then, only the nastiest of cuts over the eyes would be enough to stop a fight. The Corrales/Casamayor fight is one of the only fights I can recall that was stopped because of a cut inside the fighter's mouth.

[markusmod]

I would say boxing began it's safety first approach we know today shortly after the Mancini/Kim fight in 1982. Title fights went from 15 to 12 rounds shortly after, and refs started taking a more active approach in stopping fights on cuts or a fighter taking too many punches. Even then, only the nastiest of cuts over the eyes would be enough to stop a fight. The Corrales/Casamayor fight is one of the only fights I can recall that was stopped because of a cut inside the fighter's mouth.

These days it depends on how much money one of them generates.

[Willie Pep 229]

These days it depends on how much money one of them generates.

How do you see money affecting a stoppage? I have heard statements made about letting a fight go an extra round because it was a title fight, but not sure what you mean about money.

[QueensburyRules]

How do you see money affecting a stoppage? I have heard statements made about letting a fight go an extra round because it was a title fight, but not sure what you mean about money.

- - Having seen every fight of Ali's back in the glory days of Youtube that we mistakenly thought would last forever, you could set your watch on his TKO cut stoppages as it seemed to me boxing was fast tracking him to his title shot he wasn't really prepared for. Perhaps the poor video quality then couldn't pick up the cuts that I could ever see, but clearly the fighters were protesting what had often been competitive bouts.

He got two dubious stoppages of Sonny. Need I go further?

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Having seen every fight of Ali's back in the glory days of Youtube that we mistakenly thought would last forever, you could set your watch on his TKO cut stoppages as it seemed to me boxing was fast tracking him to his title shot he wasn't really prepared for. Perhaps the poor video quality then couldn't pick up the cuts that I could ever see, but clearly the fighters were protesting what had often been competitive bouts.

He got two dubious stoppages of Sonny. Need I go further?

I assume you mean Liston both times, not Liston and Banks.

Who would want to position Clay? I get that many thought Liston still mobbed up and would like him gone, but to put in place someone you know you can't control. Um? I don't like the theory.

But pre-champion Cay does have quite a few cut stoppages at a time when many other fights were allowed to continue.

[QueensburyRules]

I assume you mean Liston both times, not Liston and Banks.

Who would want to position Clay? I get that many thought Liston still mobbed up and would like him gone, but to put in place someone you know you can't control. Um? I don't like the theory.

But pre-champion Cay does have quite a few cut stoppages at a time when many other fights were allowed to continue.

- - Pre NOI Clay was not especially popular with boxing fans, prob because his big mouth overwhelmed his performances, but that was the best boxing could do to improve their image during the Sonny reign.

Bit odd in that at least on the surface, Sonny makes a case for excon rehabilitation and education as he learned how to read by getting tutored with his contracts.

He was happily married to Geraldine who seems to have given him the emotional support he needed as he tried to move into a more stable living situation. Geraldine made some TV and perhaps even movie appearances after his death, so she had some intellectual assets also benefiting Sonny.

[kafkod]

- - Having seen every fight of Ali's back in the glory days of Youtube that we mistakenly thought would last forever, you could set your watch on his TKO cut stoppages as it seemed to me boxing was fast tracking him to his title shot he wasn't really prepared for. Perhaps the poor video quality then couldn't pick up the cuts that I could ever see, but clearly the fighters were protesting what had often been competitive bouts.

He got two dubious stoppages of Sonny. Need I go further?

The problem with that theory is that if you wanted rid of Liston you would fast track somebody who was percieved to have a good chance of beating him. From what I can see of the situation back then, hardly anybody outside of Ali and his team thought he had a snowball in hell's chance against Liston, until Liston quit on his stool.

And if you're claiming the Ali/Liston fights were rigged or fixed ... why would you need to fast track Ali to get rid of Sonny?

[QueensburyRules]

The problem with that theory is that if you wanted rid of Liston you would fast track somebody who was percieved to have a good chance of beating him. From what I can see of the situation back then, hardly anybody outside of Ali and his team thought he had a snowball in hell's chance against Liston, until Liston quit on his stool.

And if you're claiming the Ali/Liston fights were rigged or fixed ... why would you need to fast track Ali to get rid of Sonny?

- - Prob with your logic is false assumptions.

Ali as a wholesome American Gold Medalist was just the thing needed to salvage American Boxing savaged during the Mafia era that Liston represented as the ultimate apex predator put in place by the mob.

Fights can always be arranged both then and now with convenient officiating and Commish oversight. Clay was never perceived as weak then because most had not seen his bouts that were largely cut stoppages, but in highly publicized Cooper and Jones bouts, ie the best contenders he ever faced, he looked like death warmed over, hence 50-1 odds.

I would think it would be intuitive for any cognizant being to see that the sooner boxing rid itself of Sonny the sooner they could sell boxing in the new TV age since they couldn't even make any money betting on Sonny.

And that's what happened save Ali threw a monkey wrench in the works with NOI and Malcom and Elijah, so the plan didn't pan out as anticipated. Net result was Ali was never popular until his Vietnam stance and the rest history...amen