Could Bowe circa 1992 handle a 1960 Sonny Liston

[Ascended]

How did the fighters get more advanced? Not sport science, equipment, steroids and whatnot, but training and skills. What has changed in these two "specific" things? Its already been proven historians, trainers, sports writers etc still consider Louis the most skilled heavyweight ever. I can show link after link to back this up. Yet we should believe you and your brother? Have you ever even boxed?

no you can show outdated quotes which mean nothing visual evidence proves you wrong why dont you get somebody who can see who can watch with you and show you the same stuff I show you I know your visual is bad I told you last week you keep saying how words mean something they don't and I find it odd you keep thinking it does

You refuse to show me visual evidence which is all I care about no words can change that words can't make a person fight better or can you go back and delete video and make the person fight different which your trying to do which is crazy

Now if I seen proof on video of advances I told you others have and had yea those words you said would be fact you or nobody else can show that from the Joe era you cant even show joe or people in his time fighting as advances as the 70s which was the start of polished and mutil advanced movements your trying to prove yourself right not me wrong cause I can't be proved wrong

[The Old LefHook]

First off, i never said Louis couldnt be beat. Styles make fights and there is always a style to counter another. What im asking, "specifically", is how skills have changed? I mean i can tell you how they've changed, but i want to hear your opinion on that. You make claims but never explain rhem. How have boxing skills become better with the evolution of man?

Learn to not engage halfwits. I works.

[JAB5239]

no you can show outdated quotes which mean nothing visual evidence proves you wrong why dont you get somebody who can see who can watch with you and show you the same stuff I show you I know your visual is bad I told you last week you keep saying how words mean something they don't and I find it odd you keep thinking it does

You refuse to show me visual evidence which is all I care about no words can change that words can't make a person fight better or can you go back and delete video and make the person fight different which your trying to do which is crazy

Now if I seen proof on video of advances I told you others have and had yea those words you said would be fact you or nobody else can show that from the Joe era you cant even show joe or people in his time fighting as advances as the 70s which was the start of polished and mutil advanced movements your trying to prove yourself right not me wrong cause I can't be proved wrong

Outdated quotes? I can get you several articles from the last 20 years calling Louis the greatest technical heavyweight ever. Can you provide a single link in the last 20 years about ANY fighter in that time span being the best technical fighter ever? Lol, i already know you cant. I also know you still havent answrred my previous two questions. Seems to be your MO.

[JAB5239]

Learn to not engage halfwits. I works.

I know, its just i need a new kickball. Queenie went flat.

[JAB5239]

I cant provide any quotes from any so called experts but forum and internet members i can and always can provide visual evidence which you can compare which is like I always say I care about I want visual no words

No words can make me think i see something i dont like you like to pretend

I told you last week just like I told the other person today what I told you of what my brother said when I told you I showed you him ike who he had never seen cause he never looked for him since alot of people like him which are mid level are forgot about they are underrated

My brother had seen mutiple matches from Joe's era and has memory still of those matches and how they mover and has seen many matches from 70s-90s fighters and has seen the advances

why would a person just laugh and shake their head when told this they say this man would be beat by another era which was from like 50 or 40 years ago it doesn't make sense he did it cause he has memory of how they fought in the 30s

It would be no different if you compare a NBA player today or any 00s vs how they played in 60s or before they play with way more skill they move way better they have more picking of shots and advanced plays that didnt exist in those years

Still no answers, still no proof. I can show you dozens of posters who say Louis was the best, as well as historians, trainers, fighters, sports writers etc. Whos got more credibilty?

[Ascended]

Still no answers, still no proof. I can show you dozens of posters who say Louis was the best, as well as historians, trainers, fighters, sports writers etc. Whos got more credibilty?

I cant provide any quotes from any so called experts but forum and internet members i can and always can provide visual evidence which you can compare which is like I always say I care about I want visual no words

No words can make me think i see something i dont like you like to pretend

I told you last week just like I told the other person today what I told you of what my brother said when I told you I showed you him ike who he had never seen cause he never looked for him since alot of people like him which are mid level are forgot about they are underrated

My brother had seen mutiple matches from Joe's era and has memory still of those matches and how they mover and has seen many matches from 70s-90s fighters and has seen the advances

why would a person just laugh and shake their head when told this they say this man would be beat by another era which was from like 50 or 40 years ago it doesn't make sense he did it cause he has memory of how they fought in the 30s

It would be no different if you compare a NBA player today or any 00s vs how they played in 60s or before they play with way more skill they move way better they have more picking of shots and advanced plays that didnt exist in those years

And the thing is he is a basketball nerd so he watches it heavy and he has seen mutiple games and he sees how they play way better these 00s like the stuff I said same goes for boxing its been way more advanced fighters from 70s-90s then joe even mid names its easy to see

Quotes cant change the stuff recorded no quote can so to keep repeating that like it can makes no sense so why do you keep saying how some words can change visual evidence of different eras moving different and added skill explain

Like its video called ali vs louis YouTube its the 2nd one down its a side by side video and even though it's ali you can see even with the people he fought how much more advanced in their movements they move and more layers to it and look how they move with the people Joe fought it looks amateurish

Any joe compared to ike or bowe or anybody else mid/high 70s-90s fighter side by side looks the same as that ali vid shown next to the joe it looks outdated stiff slow missing of advances

The Joe your talking of is fiction the one I'm talking on is the real one on video

[JAB5239]

I cant provide any quotes from any so called experts but forum and internet members i can and always can provide visual evidence which you can compare which is like I always say I care about I want visual no words

No words can make me think i see something i dont like you like to pretend

I told you last week just like I told the other person today what I told you of what my brother said when I told you I showed you him ike who he had never seen cause he never looked for him since alot of people like him which are mid level are forgot about they are underrated

My brother had seen mutiple matches from Joe's era and has memory still of those matches and how they mover and has seen many matches from 70s-90s fighters and has seen the advances

why would a person just laugh and shake their head when told this they say this man would be beat by another era which was from like 50 or 40 years ago it doesn't make sense he did it cause he has memory of how they fought in the 30s

It would be no different if you compare a NBA player today or any 00s vs how they played in 60s or before they play with way more skill they move way better they have more picking of shots and advanced plays that didnt exist in those years

And the thing is he is a basketball nerd so he watches it heavy and he has seen mutiple games and he sees how they play way better these 00s like the stuff I said same goes for boxing its been way more advanced fighters from 70s-90s then joe even mid names its easy to see

Quotes cant change the stuff recorded no quote can so to keep repeating that like it can makes no sense so why do you keep saying how some words can change visual evidence of different eras moving different and added skill explain

Like its video called ali vs louis YouTube its the 2nd one down its a side by side video and even though it's ali you can see even with the people he fought how much more advanced in their movements they move and more layers to it and look how they move with the people Joe fought it looks amateurish

Any joe compared to ike or bowe or anybody else mid/high 70s-90s fighter side by side looks the same as that ali vid shown next to the joe it looks outdated stiff slow missing of advances

The Joe your talking of is fiction the one I'm talking on is the real one on video

Do you copy and paste the same thing over and over? Ive grown bored with you. You've brought nothing to the table.

[Willow The Wisp]

".......But Bowe was bigger and better than anyone Liston ever beat". Eddie Machen, Zora Folley and Cleveland Williams were all considerably better than Rid**** Bowe. IMO, of course. Nino Valdez was close to Bowe's size, minus Bowe's fat azz. The magic of Bowe was that he was very good but not great, was superbly managed, sidestepped his Olympic conquer and used his bulk effectively against Evander Holyfield. His record consists of victories over faded former contenders and fringe contenders, totaling to a fine body of work, but not something remarkable. All went along fine for Bowe until Golota twice exposed his limitation while he was still in the midst of his prime. I think Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, W. Klitschko, V. Klitschko, Fury and Wilder were in a higher class above Bowe. Bowe is in a respectable class with top 10 types such as Terell, Bonavena, Chuvalo, L. Martin, Quarry, Ellis, Bugner, Lyle, Shavers, Mathis, Tate, Weaver, Snipes, Berbick, Page, Coetzee, Cooney, Dokes, Byrd, Ibeabuchi, Tua, Whyte, Povetkin, Joshua, Ruiz, Usyk, etc., and he would have suffered loses against some of those I imagine.
Meh, everyone has an opinion. That's mine.

[billeau2]

".......But Bowe was bigger and better than anyone Liston ever beat". Eddie Machen, Zora Folley and Cleveland Williams were all considerably better than Rid**** Bowe. IMO, of course. Nino Valdez was close to Bowe's size, minus Bowe's fat azz. The magic of Bowe was that he was very good but not great, was superbly managed, sidestepped his Olympic conquer and used his bulk effectively against Evander Holyfield. His record consists of victories over faded former contenders and fringe contenders, totaling to a fine body of work, but not something remarkable. All went along fine for Bowe until Golota twice exposed his limitation while he was still in the midst of his prime. I think Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, W. Klitschko, V. Klitschko, Fury and Wilder were in a higher class above Bowe. Bowe is in a respectable class with top 10 types such as Terell, Bonavena, Chuvalo, L. Martin, Quarry, Ellis, Bugner, Lyle, Shavers, Mathis, Tate, Weaver, Snipes, Berbick, Page, Coetzee, Cooney, Dokes, Byrd, Ibeabuchi, Tua, Whyte, Povetkin, Joshua, Ruiz, Usyk, etc., and he would have suffered loses against some of those I imagine.
Meh, everyone has an opinion. That's mine.

Eddie Futch liked him and that carried some weight lol. Ill say this for Bowe, he threw all shots and fought at all ranges, but comparing him to Liston? Liston imo is already chronically underrated... ThemApples made a great point about fighters imitating versus using really ingrained understanding... Liston was boxing's Musashi lol... Simple controlled aggression done at the proper pace, relentless... with a jab that could fell an ox.

[QueensburyRules]

".......But Bowe was bigger and better than anyone Liston ever beat". Eddie Machen, Zora Folley and Cleveland Williams were all considerably better than Rid**** Bowe. IMO, of course. Nino Valdez was close to Bowe's size, minus Bowe's fat azz. The magic of Bowe was that he was very good but not great, was superbly managed, sidestepped his Olympic conquer and used his bulk effectively against Evander Holyfield. His record consists of victories over faded former contenders and fringe contenders, totaling to a fine body of work, but not something remarkable. All went along fine for Bowe until Golota twice exposed his limitation while he was still in the midst of his prime. I think Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, W. Klitschko, V. Klitschko, Fury and Wilder were in a higher class ab ove Bowe. Bowe is in a respectable class with top 10 types such as Terell, Bonavena, Chuvalo, L. Martin, Quarry, Ellis, Bugner, Lyle, Shavers, Mathis, Tate, Weaver, Snipes, Berbick, Page, Coetzee, Cooney, Dokes, Byrd, Ibeabuchi, Tua, Whyte, Povetkin, Joshua, Ruiz, Usyk, etc., and he would have suffered loses against some of those I imagine.
Meh, everyone has an opinion. That's mine.

t

- - Big Dummy inherited a unified title that Tyson was the first to consolidate. He promptly lost every title he ever had. Holmes never held more than the WBC Administrative Belt in a multibelt era. His record vs champions holding a belt won in the ring is 0-6, 0 KO

Usyk and AJ the unifiers in the Mike Tyson mold several grades above Big Dummy and Holmesy..

That you can't see these things is disturbing for your health and well being.