Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[-CANE-]

Like I said, he should've had the title much sooner.. He threw both Ali fights, and that keeps him from being #1. But, if you know anything about what he did, about how good he was, about how amazing he was physically.. It's hard to have him any place other than #1 or #2. The guy is as much myth as he is actual fact. He has more "legend" to him than any of the other ATG's, anyone wanna' argue that?

14" fists, a reach that ranges from 84"-94" inches, an emotionless devil-like face, scars from being whipped like a slave on his back, stature almost like a gorilla (that is not racist at all, just an observation from pictures of him, his arms are so much longer than his torso and so big that they really almost look like legs), plus the fact he had like a 2 foot ****. hahaha

Regarding Liston I agree with some of your statements, he should have had the title sooner, they're may have been something not quite right about the Ali fights but there is no proof. He was a lot better than a lot of people realize and physically was awesome BUT he was not more "LEGEND" than any other ATG, I'll argue all night long on that one with you. On my new modified list taking 16 champions into consideration, I had him at no.16 bearing in mind that this list was on achievments as champion only, the criteria was years reigned, defenses made and how many times they became champion, plus impact and quality of opposition and he came out lower than the other 15 that hardly places as high as you suggest. Now I realise there is more criteria I should add to find the greatest all round heavyweight champions such as ability, a deeper look into the opposition fought and maybe some other ciriteria, so I could see him climbing up my ratings but certainly not as high as you suggest, plus I also need to add more heavyweights as I only took 16 so there may well be some that jump above him. I understand your a really big fan of Liston and I admire him but lets be realistic about this.

[ForemanCrossArm]

Ok, your list is based on "champions" my list is based on "boxers." Better?

[hhascup]

Like I said, he should've had the title much sooner.. He threw both Ali fights, and that keeps him from being #1. But, if you know anything about what he did, about how good he was, about how amazing he was physically.. It's hard to have him any place other than #1 or #2. The guy is as much myth as he is actual fact. He has more "legend" to him than any of the other ATG's, anyone wanna' argue that?

14" fists, a reach that ranges from 84"-94" inches, an emotionless devil-like face, scars from being whipped like a slave on his back, stature almost like a gorilla (that is not racist at all, just an observation from pictures of him, his arms are so much longer than his torso and so big that they really almost look like legs), plus the fact he had like a 2 foot ****. hahaha

It didn't look to me that he threw the 1st Ali bout. He just looked slow compared to Ali and he couldn't catch him.

I have the boxing gloves that Liston used in his last bout of his boxing career, when he stopped Chuck Wepner. His fist measured 15" and he had a 84" reach.

[ForemanCrossArm]

Tyson was asked once about Sugar Ray Robinson being the Greatest Pound for Pound Boxer Ever. He said, Robinson was Great, BUT the Greatest is left for only One Man, and that was Muhammad Ali.

Most people were beaten before the opening bell rung when they boxed Tyson and Liston, Ali wouldn't be. He would be too smart for both of them. Remember the most aggressive Heavyweight Ever was Joe Frazier and he couldn't stop Ali in over 40 rounds.

Here's Nat Fleischer's All-Time List of the Most Aggressive Boxers Ever:

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Joe Frazier
3. Harry Greb

Frazier had Ali stopped in the first fight. He would've been tko'd in a 16th round, hell, with today's refs he probably would've been tko'd in the 15th.

[ForemanCrossArm]

They may be true but they dont qualify him for being a great, mayb he had a long reach but tyson had a rediculous neck. He may have been a relaxed fighter but these dont really qualify you to b an ATG, he achivements are pretty average if u look, one time champ, one defence. I dnt believe he threw both fights, he treid to cheat and win in the first fight, he was just out classed. There have been many great physical specimens, Tyson and Foreman come to mind, and as for being the biggest legend thats foolish. 1 in 10 people will know who he is 10 in 10 will know Tyson or Ali even Foreman. Ask people who was the most ferocious fighter they wont say Liston. His impact on the sport wasnt massive either. He technically wasnt as gifted. Btw can i see the rest of your list?

Ok, the dude is wayyyy more legend than Foreman or Tyson. Both have been aired on news waves for years, there is no underlying myth over facts with either one (other than Foreman's inability to last 10 rounds at 28 but then somehow able to do it at 38).

Liston had maybe THE biggest impact on the sport, I can't believe you don't know that one.. He was the driving figure behind the mob being 'partially' driven out of the fight game!!! seriously, he changed the sport. He didn't change things around the world like Ali, but, as far as boxing goes, he had to do with A LOT of change.

[-CANE-]

Ok, your list is based on "champions" my list is based on "boxers." Better?

Yeah thanks for that. Maybe we both need to take each others criteria into account, so that we can come up with our own list of overall heavyweight champions, taking as much criteria into account as possible, which I think we both need to do. I agree that ability etc should be taken into account which when I get the time I will amend my list, but surely if we are trying to find the greatest champions then accomplishments need to be taken into account. That's where a lot of differences come with peoples lists because of the criteria you are basing it on. Between all of us we should be able to agree on a set list of criteria and when we have all done that we can then all redo our lists, and yes they will be different because alot of the criteria will be subjective such as ability and impact and anything else we can agree on, but we need to add the factual as well. At least if we can manage to agree on the criteria then when we see someone elses list and it is different there shouldn't be as much difference as we see now and less need for people to get really argumentitive and thinking I'm right and your completely wrong.

[ForemanCrossArm]

It didn't look to me that he threw the 1st Ali bout. He just looked slow compared to Ali and he couldn't catch him.

I have the boxing gloves that Liston used in his last bout of his boxing career, when he stopped Chuck Wepner. His fist measured 15" and he had a 84" reach.

Wow, that's awesome... Seriously. Whoa. I'm impressed. And I'll go with 14.5" and 90-ish, personally. Ha. He ****ing PUNISHED Wepner, btw. He was getting TIRED of BEATING HIM TO A PULP. Not from the fight itself, just from the fact that he was getting tired of breaking facial bones (mentally!).

Yeah, he looked slow, he looked like ONE-THIRTIETH (tops) the fighter he was.. WHEN HE FOUGHT WEPNER!!! He didn't even "lose" to Ali. He just quit. He couldn't even take a proper dive.. And I think that is why I respect him like I do. He just faked an injury that was never proved rather than take a legit loss. His 2nd fight's dive was much the same way, except he was told not to quit but to "lose" and he did the best job of quitting while getting a 10 count possible.

[hhascup]

Frazier had Ali stopped in the first fight. He would've been tko'd in a 16th round, hell, with today's refs he probably would've been tko'd in the 15th.

Have you ever seen the fight. After being knockdown by one of the Greatest Left Hooks Ever, Ali got up and won the rest of the round. It was Frazier that was very tried at the end of the bout, in fact he had to go to the hospital for several days after.

[ForemanCrossArm]

Yeah thanks for that. Maybe we both need to take each others criteria into account, so that we can come up with our own list of overall heavyweight champions, taking as much criteria into account as possible, which I think we both need to do. I agree that ability etc should be taken into account which when I get the time I will amend my list, but surely if we are trying to find the greatest champions then accomplishments need to be taken into account. That's where a lot of differences come with peoples lists because of the criteria you are basing it on. Between all of us we should be able to agree on a set list of criteria and when we have all done that we can then all redo our lists, and yes they will be different because alot of the criteria will be subjective such as ability and impact and anything else we can agree on, but we need to add the factual as well. At least if we can manage to agree on the criteria then when we see someone elses list and it is different there shouldn't be as much difference as we see now and less need for people to get really argumentitive and thinking I'm right and your completely wrong.

True, true. If we're talking champs then it's Ali or Louis (modern era) or Rocky. If it's ability then Frazier, Liston, Tyson. It's completely different things.. I think the best are the ability guys without the GREAT physical tools (Frazier was much more self-made then either Tyson (who was already viewed as someone with potential at 12) or monster-man Liston) and the champs without the great natural ability (Rocky had an awkward style that no one would teach in a gym, etc..).

[ForemanCrossArm]

Have you ever seen the fight. After being knockdown by one of the Greatest Left Hooks Ever, Ali got up and won the rest of the round. It was Frazier that was very tried at the end of the bout, in fact he had to go to the hospital for several days after.

Have you ever learned the facts? Frazier's BP was so high in the weeks before the fight that he would never of even been able to fight.. again, in today's world.

Plus, wow, Ali didn't win the rest of the round. Frazier was pressing for the KO at that point because of the fact it was the 15th round, and he would've gotten it eventually. Even with his bum body he woulda' put Ali down with another 180 seconds, hell, another 60 seconds.