Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[hhascup]

Ali Opponents vs. Holmes Opponents:



Note: I put Shavers vs. Shavers, L. Spinks vs. L. Spinks and Norton vs. Norton, so they would be draws. You can also change any match ups if you like as long as you have the best against the best. You can also put Shavers, L. Spinks and Norton against some other boxers as well. Also, I didn't include Ali's name on Holmes's list.


1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Cooney 25-0-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. Mercer 18-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. Witherspoon 15-0-0
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Norton 40-4-0
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Berbick 18-1-1
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 14-1-0 & 44-16-1
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Bey 14-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Snipes 22-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. M. Frazier 10-0-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. L. Jones 24-0-1
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Cobb 21-2-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Weaver 19-8-0 & 41-17-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Shavers 54-6-1 & 59-7-1
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. Carl Williams 16-0-0
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. Ocasio 13-0-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Butterbean 65-2-3
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. LeDoux 26-8-4
18. Moore 184-22-11 vs. Zanon 25-4-2
19. Young 17-4-2 vs. Evangelista 23-2-1
20. Clev. Williams 65-5-1 vs. Ferguson 20-12-0
21. D. Jones 21-3-1 vs. L. Rodriguez 35-7-1
22. Cooper 27-8-1 & 33-11-1 vs. S. Frank 21-0-1
23. L. Spinks 7-0-1 vs. L. Spinks 10-2-2

[LondonRingRules]

I still feel that it would be Ali's opponents that would win most of these match-ups.

** I like the way you think Henry. Great detail and originality.

Consider this though, a straight up head to head matchup of careers

Tyson, pro at age 18 vs Ali, pro at age 18.

Tyson, 28-0, 20.5 yrs old, KO 2 Berbick
Ali, 20-0, 22 yrs old, KO 7 Liston.
Tyson, 20.75 yrs old, UD Smith
Ali, 23.5 yrs old, KO 1 Liston.

Liston is obviously the HOFer, but the question will always be either how much he had left or whether he threw these fights. Advantage Tyson who faced strong prime heavies as big or bigger than Liston.

Tyson, 20.75 yrs old, KO 7 Thomas
Ali, 23.75 yrs old, KO 12 Patterson.

Advantage Tyson. Thomas walks through Patterson

Tyson, 21 yrs old, wide UD Tucker.
Ali, 24 yrs old, wide UD, Chuvalo.

Advantage, Tyson. Tucker bigger, stronger, faster, just as durable and more powerful plus undefeated.

Tyson, 21.5 yrs old, KO 7, Biggs.
Ali, 24.5 yrs old, KO 6 Cooper.

Advantage, Tyson. Biggs is ridiculously bigger, stronger, faster, with the pedigree of young Ali compared to Cooper.

Tyson, 21.5 yrs old, KO 4, Larry Holmes
Ali, 24.5 yrs old, KO 3, London.

You got to be kidding!

Tyson, 21.75 yrs old, KO 2 Tubbs
Ali, 24.75 yrs old, KO 12, Mildenberger

Advantage Tyson. Tubbs bigger, stronger, faster.

Tyson, 22 yrs, KO 1 Spinks
Ali, 24.75, KO 3 Williams

Got to be kidding!

Tyson, 22.75 yrs old, KO 5 Bruno
Ali, 25, wide UD Terrell.

Advantage Tyson. Bruno bigger, stronger overall with more power. Terrell not enough power and boxing abilities about even.

Tyson, 23 yrs old, KO 1 Williams
Ali, 25.25 yrs old, KO 7 Folley

Advantage Tyson. Williams bigger, stronger, faster, more prime than Folley who was still a respected fighter at that point.

Here is where the paths diverge dramatically. Tyson KOed by Douglas in a bout he had Douglas KOed in and Ali is stripped and doesn't fight for 3 yrs. Tyson is shortly afterwards charged, convicted, and imprisoned, out of action for 5 yrs and then an additional yr a couple years after that..

Tyson never really mounts a credible comeback, and Ali struggles against better fighters, has some classic bouts, some he loses, others he wins, others very controversial. Both men completely done by mid 30s.

When Tyson and Ali were at their best, Tyson's competition is several grades above Ali's with the possible exception of Liston who just doesn't pass the smell test IMO. Ali has the advantage in the comebacks, but Tyson never benefitted from controversy like Ali, even having a couple bouts ruled NC when it was clear Tyson was knocking out his opponent.

At any rate, both became circus sideshows at their ends.

[Brassangel]

** I like the way you think Henry. Great detail and originality.

Consider this though, a straight up head to head matchup of careers

Tyson, pro at age 18 vs Ali, pro at age 18.

Tyson, 28-0, 20.5 yrs old, KO 2 Berbick
Ali, 20-0, 22 yrs old, KO 7 Liston.
Tyson, 20.75 yrs old, UD Smith
Ali, 23.5 yrs old, KO 1 Liston.

Liston is obviously the HOFer, but the question will always be either how much he had left or whether he threw these fights. Advantage Tyson who faced strong prime heavies as big or bigger than Liston.

Tyson, 20.75 yrs old, KO 7 Thomas
Ali, 23.75 yrs old, KO 12 Patterson.

Advantage Tyson. Thomas walks through Patterson

Tyson, 21 yrs old, wide UD Tucker.
Ali, 24 yrs old, wide UD, Chuvalo.

Advantage, Tyson. Tucker bigger, stronger, faster, just as durable and more powerful plus undefeated.

Tyson, 21.5 yrs old, KO 7, Biggs.
Ali, 24.5 yrs old, KO 6 Cooper.

Advantage, Tyson. Biggs is ridiculously bigger, stronger, faster, with the pedigree of young Ali compared to Cooper.

Tyson, 21.5 yrs old, KO 4, Larry Holmes
Ali, 24.5 yrs old, KO 3, London.

You got to be kidding!

Tyson, 21.75 yrs old, KO 2 Tubbs
Ali, 24.75 yrs old, KO 12, Mildenberger

Advantage Tyson. Tubbs bigger, stronger, faster.

Tyson, 22 yrs, KO 1 Spinks
Ali, 24.75, KO 3 Williams

Got to be kidding!

Tyson, 22.75 yrs old, KO 5 Bruno
Ali, 25, wide UD Terrell.

Advantage Tyson. Bruno bigger, stronger overall with more power. Terrell not enough power and boxing abilities about even.

Tyson, 23 yrs old, KO 1 Williams
Ali, 25.25 yrs old, KO 7 Folley

Advantage Tyson. Williams bigger, stronger, faster, more prime than Folley who was still a respected fighter at that point.

Here is where the paths diverge dramatically. Tyson KOed by Douglas in a bout he had Douglas KOed in and Ali is stripped and doesn't fight for 3 yrs. Tyson is shortly afterwards charged, convicted, and imprisoned, out of action for 5 yrs and then an additional yr a couple years after that..

Tyson never really mounts a credible comeback, and Ali struggles against better fighters, has some classic bouts, some he loses, others he wins, others very controversial. Both men completely done by mid 30s.

When Tyson and Ali were at their best, Tyson's competition is several grades above Ali's with the possible exception of Liston who just doesn't pass the smell test IMO. Ali has the advantage in the comebacks, but Tyson never benefitted from controversy like Ali, even having a couple bouts ruled NC when it was clear Tyson was knocking out his opponent.

At any rate, both became circus sideshows at their ends.

Wonderful information!

[-CANE-]

** I like the way you think Henry. Great detail and originality.

Consider this though, a straight up head to head matchup of careers

Tyson, pro at age 18 vs Ali, pro at age 18.

Tyson, 28-0, 20.5 yrs old, KO 2 Berbick
Ali, 20-0, 22 yrs old, KO 7 Liston.
Tyson, 20.75 yrs old, UD Smith
Ali, 23.5 yrs old, KO 1 Liston.

Liston is obviously the HOFer, but the question will always be either how much he had left or whether he threw these fights. Advantage Tyson who faced strong prime heavies as big or bigger than Liston.

Tyson, 20.75 yrs old, KO 7 Thomas
Ali, 23.75 yrs old, KO 12 Patterson.

Advantage Tyson. Thomas walks through Patterson

Tyson, 21 yrs old, wide UD Tucker.
Ali, 24 yrs old, wide UD, Chuvalo.

Advantage, Tyson. Tucker bigger, stronger, faster, just as durable and more powerful plus undefeated.

Tyson, 21.5 yrs old, KO 7, Biggs.
Ali, 24.5 yrs old, KO 6 Cooper.

Advantage, Tyson. Biggs is ridiculously bigger, stronger, faster, with the pedigree of young Ali compared to Cooper.

Tyson, 21.5 yrs old, KO 4, Larry Holmes
Ali, 24.5 yrs old, KO 3, London.

You got to be kidding!

Tyson, 21.75 yrs old, KO 2 Tubbs
Ali, 24.75 yrs old, KO 12, Mildenberger

Advantage Tyson. Tubbs bigger, stronger, faster.

Tyson, 22 yrs, KO 1 Spinks
Ali, 24.75, KO 3 Williams

Got to be kidding!

Tyson, 22.75 yrs old, KO 5 Bruno
Ali, 25, wide UD Terrell.

Advantage Tyson. Bruno bigger, stronger overall with more power. Terrell not enough power and boxing abilities about even.

Tyson, 23 yrs old, KO 1 Williams
Ali, 25.25 yrs old, KO 7 Folley

Advantage Tyson. Williams bigger, stronger, faster, more prime than Folley who was still a respected fighter at that point.

Here is where the paths diverge dramatically. Tyson KOed by Douglas in a bout he had Douglas KOed in and Ali is stripped and doesn't fight for 3 yrs. Tyson is shortly afterwards charged, convicted, and imprisoned, out of action for 5 yrs and then an additional yr a couple years after that..

Tyson never really mounts a credible comeback, and Ali struggles against better fighters, has some classic bouts, some he loses, others he wins, others very controversial. Both men completely done by mid 30s.

When Tyson and Ali were at their best, Tyson's competition is several grades above Ali's with the possible exception of Liston who just doesn't pass the smell test IMO. Ali has the advantage in the comebacks, but Tyson never benefitted from controversy like Ali, even having a couple bouts ruled NC when it was clear Tyson was knocking out his opponent.

At any rate, both became circus sideshows at their ends.

Interesting LRR, disagree with a couple of your pics, also wouldnt say Tyson's competition is several grades above, some might have been better but not several grades, your making them out to be legends if you say that and they are not, not any of them.

[The Iron Man]

For those who care, i have done a spread sheet with all the different catagories we spoke aboout and i came to a conclusion, but i have given it to someone else who will make adjustments to what they think, and then ill discuss it with them, which should hopefully eliminate any biasedness. And have more opinions.

[hhascup]

** I like the way you think Henry. Great detail and originality.

Consider this though, a straight up head to head matchup of careers

Tyson, pro at age 18 vs Ali, pro at age 18.

Tyson, 28-0, 20.5 yrs old, KO 2 Berbick
Ali, 20-0, 22 yrs old, KO 7 Liston.
Tyson, 20.75 yrs old, UD Smith
Ali, 23.5 yrs old, KO 1 Liston.

Liston is obviously the HOFer, but the question will always be either how much he had left or whether he threw these fights. Advantage Tyson who faced strong prime heavies as big or bigger than Liston.

Tyson, 20.75 yrs old, KO 7 Thomas
Ali, 23.75 yrs old, KO 12 Patterson.

Advantage Tyson. Thomas walks through Patterson

Tyson, 21 yrs old, wide UD Tucker.
Ali, 24 yrs old, wide UD, Chuvalo.

Advantage, Tyson. Tucker bigger, stronger, faster, just as durable and more powerful plus undefeated.

Tyson, 21.5 yrs old, KO 7, Biggs.
Ali, 24.5 yrs old, KO 6 Cooper.

Advantage, Tyson. Biggs is ridiculously bigger, stronger, faster, with the pedigree of young Ali compared to Cooper.

Tyson, 21.5 yrs old, KO 4, Larry Holmes
Ali, 24.5 yrs old, KO 3, London.

You got to be kidding!

Tyson, 21.75 yrs old, KO 2 Tubbs
Ali, 24.75 yrs old, KO 12, Mildenberger

Advantage Tyson. Tubbs bigger, stronger, faster.

Tyson, 22 yrs, KO 1 Spinks
Ali, 24.75, KO 3 Williams

Got to be kidding!

Tyson, 22.75 yrs old, KO 5 Bruno
Ali, 25, wide UD Terrell.

Advantage Tyson. Bruno bigger, stronger overall with more power. Terrell not enough power and boxing abilities about even.

Tyson, 23 yrs old, KO 1 Williams
Ali, 25.25 yrs old, KO 7 Folley

Advantage Tyson. Williams bigger, stronger, faster, more prime than Folley who was still a respected fighter at that point.

Here is where the paths diverge dramatically. Tyson KOed by Douglas in a bout he had Douglas KOed in and Ali is stripped and doesn't fight for 3 yrs. Tyson is shortly afterwards charged, convicted, and imprisoned, out of action for 5 yrs and then an additional yr a couple years after that..

Tyson never really mounts a credible comeback, and Ali struggles against better fighters, has some classic bouts, some he loses, others he wins, others very controversial. Both men completely done by mid 30s.

When Tyson and Ali were at their best, Tyson's competition is several grades above Ali's with the possible exception of Liston who just doesn't pass the smell test IMO. Ali has the advantage in the comebacks, but Tyson never benefitted from controversy like Ali, even having a couple bouts ruled NC when it was clear Tyson was knocking out his opponent.

At any rate, both became circus sideshows at their ends.

Interesting BUT I have to disagree. Ali fought the much better opponents at the time they each fought them.

If you match up Ali's best against Tyson's best Ali's would come out on top. Try matching these guys and see for yourself.

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Holmes 48-2-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. M. Spinks 31-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. P. Thomas 29-1-1
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Berbick 32-4-1
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Tubbs 24-1-0
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 19-5-0
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Tucker 35-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Biggs 15-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. Bruno 32-2-0 & 40-4-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. C. Williams 22-2-0
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Tillis 31-8-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Ruddock 24-1-1 & 24-2-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Botha 39-1-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. M. Green 16-1-1
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. M. Frazier 16-1-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Tillman 20-4-0
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. Stewart 26-1-0

Your going to tell me that Tyson fought and beat the better opponents. Just about every boxing expert and historian will disagree with you.

Match Tyson's top opponent that he beat against Foreman, then match his 2nd best opponent against Frazier and so on. No way will Tyson's opponents beat Ali's.

Tyson fought an average opponent that had a record of - 22.3 - 3.5 - 0.3

Ali fought an average opponent that had a record of ---- 33.2 - 5.2 - 1.2

Tyson fought 33 different opponents 36 times that were at one time or another rated in the top 10 in his 58 bouts, that's just over 62% of his opponents he fought that were rated in the Top 10 at one time or another. ( 32-4-0 )

Ali fought 38 different opponents 49 times that were at one time or another rated in the top 10 in his 61 bouts, that's over 80% of his opponents he fought that were rated in the Top 10 at one time or another. ( 44-5-0 )

I will say that Tyson fought the much better opponents then most if not all the rest of the Heavyweight Champions, BUT I just can't see it with Ali.

[-CANE-]

For those who care, i have done a spread sheet with all the different catagories we spoke aboout and i came to a conclusion, but i have given it to someone else who will make adjustments to what they think, and then ill discuss it with them, which should hopefully eliminate any biasedness. And have more opinions.

Can't wait to see that, hope you exlpain what criteria you used, and how if at all you scored each one. Was this list any different from your original top 10 and if so by how much. I would like to see both list when you are ready.

[-CANE-]

Interesting BUT I have to disagree. Ali fought the much better opponents at the time they each fought them.

If you match up Ali's best against Tyson's best Ali's would come out on top. Try matching these guys and see for yourself.

1. Foreman 40-0-0 vs. Holmes 48-2-0
2. Frazier 30-1-0 & 32-2-0 vs. M. Spinks 31-0-0
3. Liston 35-1-0 & 35-2-0 vs. P. Thomas 29-1-1
4. Norton 30-1-0 & 37-3-0 vs. Berbick 32-4-1
5. Patterson 43-4-0 & 55-7-1 vs. Tubbs 24-1-0
6. Quarry 37-4-4 & 43-5-4 vs. J. Smith 19-5-0
7. Bonavena 46-6-1 vs. Tucker 35-0-0
8. Ellis 30-6-0 vs. Biggs 15-0-0
9. Folley 74-7-4 vs. Bruno 32-2-0 & 40-4-0
10. Terrell 38-4-0 vs. C. Williams 22-2-0
11. Chuvalo 34-11-2 & 66-17-2 vs. Tillis 31-8-0
12. Lyle 30-2-1 vs. Ruddock 24-1-1 & 24-2-1
13. Shavers 54-5-1 vs. Botha 39-1-0
14. Bugner 43-4-1 & 51-6-1 vs. M. Green 16-1-1
15. Bob Foster 49-5-0 vs. M. Frazier 16-1-0
16. Mac Foster 28-1-0 vs. Tillman 20-4-0
17. Mildenberger 49-2-3 vs. Stewart 26-1-0

Your going to tell me that Tyson fought and beat the better opponents. Just about every boxing expert and historian will disagree with you.

Match Tyson's top opponent that he beat against Foreman, then match his 2nd best opponent against Frazier and so on. No way will Tyson's opponents beat Ali's.

Tyson fought an average opponent that had a record of - 22.3 - 3.5 - 0.3

Ali fought an average opponent that had a record of ---- 33.2 - 5.2 - 1.2

Tyson fought 33 different opponents 36 times that were at one time or another rated in the top 10 in his 58 bouts, that's just over 62% of his opponents he fought that were rated in the Top 10 at one time or another. ( 32-4-0 )

Ali fought 38 different opponents 49 times that were at one time or another rated in the top 10 in his 61 bouts, that's over 80% of his opponents he fought that were rated in the Top 10 at one time or another. ( 44-5-0 )

I will say that Tyson fought the much better opponents then most if not all the rest of the Heavyweight Champions, BUT I just can't see it with Ali.

Totally agree with the matchups above, mostly Ali's wins.
I did my predictions on these matchups on a previous page, be interested to see what you think and how they compare with yours. You say Tyson fought 33 different opponents 36 that were at one time or another rated in the top10 in his 58 bouts. That doesn't mean they were rated top10 when he fought them,but at one point in their careers, would I be correct in assuming that. I'd like to see the same for Lewis,Louis,Holyfield and Holmes would you have the stats for them on that. You also say Tyson fought better opponents than most if not all the rest of the champions with the exception of Ali. I find that hard to believe considering the state of the division when he cleaned up and what was said at the time. If I remember correctly most people were saying it was probably the worst state it had ever been in. I say the 70's was the strongest era closely followed by the 90's. I think Lennox Lewis fought much better opponents than Tyson, he also beat better opponents and beat the 2 other greats of his era.

[hhascup]

Totally agree with the matchups above, mostly Ali's wins.
I did my predictions on these matchups on a previous page, be interested to see what you think and how they compare with yours. You say Tyson fought 33 different opponents 36 that were at one time or another rated in the top10 in his 58 bouts. That doesn't mean they were rated top10 when he fought them,but at one point in their careers, would I be correct in assuming that. I'd like to see the same for Lewis,Louis,Holyfield and Holmes would you have the stats for them on that. You also say Tyson fought better opponents than most if not all the rest of the champions with the exception of Ali. I find that hard to believe considering the state of the division when he cleaned up and what was said at the time. If I remember correctly most people were saying it was probably the worst state it had ever been in. I say the 70's was the strongest era closely followed by the 90's. I think Lennox Lewis fought much better opponents than Tyson, he also beat better opponents and beat the 2 other greats of his era.

I agree, as I was just being nice. Tyson did fight the better opponents then most, BUT not all.

Here's some of the top Heavyweight Champions with the amount of top 10 boxers they fought and the average record of each Opponent.

Boxer- # Contenders – Total Bouts - Average Opponents record

Ali –------- 38/49 in 61 bouts –----------- 33.2 – 5.2 – 1.2
Louis-------43/54 in 71 bouts--------------38.1 – 10.2 – 2.6
Holyfield—--31/37 in 52 bouts-------------28.9 – 3.9 – 0.5 (Note: I have to up-date his last 2 opponents in this category)
Tyson------33/36 in 58 bouts--------------22.3 - 3.5 - 0.3
Lewis------23.26 in 44 bouts--------------25.1 – 5.2 – 0.5
Holmes----31/35 in 75 bouts--------------19.85 – 5.1 – 0.67
Foreman---23/27 in 81 bouts--------------20.78 – 7.54 – 1.0
Patterson---19/26 in 64 bouts-------------28.84 – 8.578 – 1.9
Liston------18/22 in 54 bouts--------------22.2 – 8.15 – 1.8
Marciano-—13/16 in 49 bouts-------------29.7 – 10.2 – 1.8

Note: Ali fought 38 different Top 10 contenders a total of 49 times, Louis fought 43 different Top 10 contenders a total of 54 times. I hope you understand that.

I also have most of these boxers like Ali, Louis & Rocky on the Top 10 contenders when they fought them.

Ali was 33/38 in 61 bouts
Louis was 31/34 in 71 bouts
Marciano 11/11 in 49 bouts

[butterfly1964]

** I like the way you think Henry. Great detail and originality.

Consider this though, a straight up head to head matchup of careers

Tyson, pro at age 18 vs Ali, pro at age 18.

Tyson, 28-0, 20.5 yrs old, KO 2 Berbick
Ali, 20-0, 22 yrs old, KO 7 Liston.
Tyson, 20.75 yrs old, UD Smith
Ali, 23.5 yrs old, KO 1 Liston.

Liston is obviously the HOFer, but the question will always be either how much he had left or whether he threw these fights. Advantage Tyson who faced strong prime heavies as big or bigger than Liston.

Tyson, 20.75 yrs old, KO 7 Thomas
Ali, 23.75 yrs old, KO 12 Patterson.

Advantage Tyson. Thomas walks through Patterson

Tyson, 21 yrs old, wide UD Tucker.
Ali, 24 yrs old, wide UD, Chuvalo.

Advantage, Tyson. Tucker bigger, stronger, faster, just as durable and more powerful plus undefeated.

Tyson, 21.5 yrs old, KO 7, Biggs.
Ali, 24.5 yrs old, KO 6 Cooper.

Advantage, Tyson. Biggs is ridiculously bigger, stronger, faster, with the pedigree of young Ali compared to Cooper.

Tyson, 21.5 yrs old, KO 4, Larry Holmes
Ali, 24.5 yrs old, KO 3, London.

You got to be kidding!

Tyson, 21.75 yrs old, KO 2 Tubbs
Ali, 24.75 yrs old, KO 12, Mildenberger

Advantage Tyson. Tubbs bigger, stronger, faster.

Tyson, 22 yrs, KO 1 Spinks
Ali, 24.75, KO 3 Williams

Got to be kidding!

Tyson, 22.75 yrs old, KO 5 Bruno
Ali, 25, wide UD Terrell.

Advantage Tyson. Bruno bigger, stronger overall with more power. Terrell not enough power and boxing abilities about even.

Tyson, 23 yrs old, KO 1 Williams
Ali, 25.25 yrs old, KO 7 Folley

Advantage Tyson. Williams bigger, stronger, faster, more prime than Folley who was still a respected fighter at that point.

Here is where the paths diverge dramatically. Tyson KOed by Douglas in a bout he had Douglas KOed in and Ali is stripped and doesn't fight for 3 yrs. Tyson is shortly afterwards charged, convicted, and imprisoned, out of action for 5 yrs and then an additional yr a couple years after that..

Tyson never really mounts a credible comeback, and Ali struggles against better fighters, has some classic bouts, some he loses, others he wins, others very controversial. Both men completely done by mid 30s.

When Tyson and Ali were at their best, Tyson's competition is several grades above Ali's with the possible exception of Liston who just doesn't pass the smell test IMO. Ali has the advantage in the comebacks, but Tyson never benefitted from controversy like Ali, even having a couple bouts ruled NC when it was clear Tyson was knocking out his opponent.

At any rate, both became circus sideshows at their ends.

Thomas is not gonna walk throught Patterson. Patterson is a top 20 HW. Thomas would be lucky to get in the top 50. Terrel would outbox Bruno pretty easily as well.

You're pathetic.