Who could beat a prime George Foreman?

[K-DOGG]

When will Holyfield get his credit??????????? You do recall Holyfield also BEAT Bowe and Moorer right? Holyfield should be around 6 or 7 on any top ten.

Holy also lost to Bowe twice out of three meetings and was knocked out once, which means he lost the series big time. That one win was by one point.

Yes he beat Moorer; but was Moorer a great heavyweight? Who did he beat? Bert Cooper? Alex Stewart? Francois Botha? How about Axel Shulz? Which one of these wins made Moorer such a great heavyweight that Holyfield going 1-1 with him automatically makes him a Top tenner?

[Hydro]

Holy also lost to Bowe twice out of three meetings and was knocked out once, which means he lost the series big time. That one win was by one point.

Yes he beat Moorer; but was Moorer a great heavyweight? Who did he beat? Bert Cooper? Alex Stewart? Francois Botha? How about Axel Shulz? Which one of these wins made Moorer such a great heavyweight that Holyfield going 1-1 with him automatically makes him a Top tenner?

Holyfield struggling in title defenses and losing to guys like Moorer made other HWs in the era overrated, and therefore some of Holyfield's wins overrated.

[K-DOGG]

If joe frazier and holyfield arent in ur top 10, then to me ur just a guy that looks at legacy rather than how good they really are. Its so easy to diss marciano's padded legacy, tunney doesnt belong in the top 10 at heavy, but i know he is in ur list, which is laughable. You probably have dempsey and johnson on ur list too. They are in ur top 10 even though thier era relied on having middleweights and light heavyweights as the top contenders, go figure.

See when i watch fighters, i look at everything. When you watch some of ur favourite fighters, you will notice weaknesses but you wont really talk about it on forums. Gene Tunney doesnt belong in top 10, why is he in ur list? Cuz you were impressed with what he did at 175 and how he beat a middleweight 3 times, lol.


To me this is how it goes:

Tyson did enough to make top 10
Lennox did enough to make top 10
Holyfield did enough to make top 10


Bowe on the other hand is an underachiever, Dempsey drew the colour line which prevented the real challengers from getting title shots. Jack johnson was too busy getting dropped by a middleweight.

My lists do take accomplishment into play, yes; but they are more based on skill displayed throughout a career, greatness proved in the ring, and has a touch of "how would they fair against any other fighter who ever lived.

I have had Frazier, Holyfield, and Tyson in my Top Ten when I was younger; but had to slide them due to the fighters who replaced them being, IMO, better.

1. Muhammad Ali......had to give him the #1 slot back primarily because I believe his competition was better than Louis's overall. Also, he is the fastest heavyweight of hand and foot who ever lived. He was eerily clever in the ring, flowed like water; he could adapt to his opposistion if "Plan A" wasn't working. He found a way to win against all odds. When the chips were down, you could never count him out.

2. Joe Louis.....Argueably the finest technical heavyweight who has ever lived. His punches were exact, precise, and served a purpose; he could knock you out with damn near any punch he threw and threw them all well, especially the jab, which is argueably the best in heavyweight history. He, even without WWII, defended his title 25 times over the course 8 years. Like Ali and all the greats, when pushed to the limit and his back placed against the wall, he always found a way to win as he did with Billy Conn when his title was lost. On the occassions where he faced a man more than once, he proved himself the better fighter in the rematch: Schmeling and Walcott are the most notable examples because he avenged a devastating loss under the most intense of circumstances and a perceived (and actual) loss at the end of his career when he was no longer a young man.

3. Jack Dempsey....Dempsey gets the number 3 slot due to a variety of reasons. He was the first truly modern heavyweight, which is notable; but more importantly, he was one of the most tenacious, vicious, and tireless aggressors the ring has ever seen. He was in there to kill or be killed; there was no quit in him, not an ounce. In two fights that I'm aware, Dempsey more or less admitted having very little recollection of knocking his opponent out after being nailed himself, one of which was the famous Luis Firpo fight. This is an example of his indomidable will to win in an age where there were very few rules to protect the fighter. He was a savage when the bell rang and would be a holy terror for any opponent past or present; and, as he proved agaisnt Tommy Gibbons, who was an accomplished technician of the day, he was capable of "boxing" when necessary: truly a man ahead of his time.

4. Jack Johnson.....Argueably the finest defensive heavyweight who has ever donned gloves. Johnson, after he came into his own, was light-years ahead of the competition, utilizing a blocking technique than picked off virtually every punch that came his way and allowed him countering opportunities. He had a fine jab which he could snake into a sneaky left hook. He possessed surprising strength on the inside, which he used to tie up his opponent and help wear them out down the stretch. A true thinking man's fighter, while boring to watch, he was extremely effective and capable of beating just about any heavyweight who has ever lived.

5. Larry Holmes....Had, along with Louis and Liston, one of the best jabs, if not the best, that the division has ever seen. A consumate professional, Larry would come into the ring with a well thought out game plan and stick to it until his opponent was either broken down and ready to be taken out, or until the judges announced the decision in his favour as was seen in his high-takes showdown with Gerry Cooney. He made 20 successful defenses of the heavyweight crown over the course of a 7 year reign and just nearly did tie Marciano's mark of 49-0. Larry displayed a fighter's heart on countless occassions, most notably against Weaver, Shavers, Snipes, and Witherspoon. Larry, quite often, was at his most dangerous when hurt and could never be counted out in his prime; argueably could have beaten any man who ever donned gloves.

6. Rocky Marciano....He was short, had short arms, was clumsy as hell in the beginning, and was one of the most awkward fighters ever to watch; but he made it work for him 49 times in a row. Argueably the best conditioned heavyweight to ever hold the crown; he had his body in condition to throw punches almost continuously for a full 15 rounds. Also, had a punch that could put any man on ***** street; and once hurt, was as relentless as a pit-bull to get you out of there, even if it meant bending the rules a little. Winning meant that much to him. He was more difficult to connect solidly on than is widey believed as he used his height, or lack of it, to his advantage against taller opponents, angling backwards in a crouch which forced taller opponents to get into his range in order to hit him, which opened up punching opportunites for Rocky. In addition to his longevity and toughness, he was tenacious. He would pound on you over and over on any target you gave him until they wore down and he then took them out. He may not be able to beat every heavyweight who ever lived; but, then again, he might as there is no blueprint as to how to beat him. Either way, they'd know they were in a scuffle by the time it ended.

7. Lennox Lewis...Was argueably the best figter in the post Tyson era beating every top contender available who would face him. His biggest assets were his size, power and boxing ability. He was big enough to keep most opponents on the outside with his telephone-pole jab and booming right hand. On the occassions where he was hurt, he showed heart; most notably against Bruno, Briggs, Holyfield, and Klitschko. On the occassions where he was defeated against McCall and Rahman, he avenged his defeats; against Rahman in a cold, calculating, and devastating fasion. By the time he retired, he had beaten every man he ever faced.


8. Sonny Liston.....As stated before, is in the top three as far as heavyweight jabs are concerned. And his was at the end of an 84" reach and tipped with a pair of mits so huge that he had to wear custom gloves. He was an above average technical fighter, who threw good combinations behind that smashing jab. He wa mean as they come in the ring; and powerful. He could take you out with any punch he threw. He was so dangerous that the manager of Floyd Patteson, the then-champ, refused to allow his charge to defend the belt against Sonny, even though he was the undisputed #1 contender and after cleaning out the best heavyweights in the division on his own to force a title shot, became recognized, more or less, as the uncrowned champion until he made it official by destroying Patterson in one. A prime Sonny Liston would be a dangerous opponent for any man to ever enter the ring past or present.

9. Gene Tunney.....One of the smartest fighter who ever lived. Tunney would study his opponents every move prior to getting in the ring with them, nitpicking every weakness and then exploiting them once in the ring. His fluid boxing style was a predecessor to Muhammad Ali, as he danced on his toes, fired a snapping jab and good straight right hand to control and dictate the pace of his bouts. Biggest heavyweight accomplishment was the dual defeat of Jack Dempsey, who while past his prime, was still a formidable opponent. Tunney made beating him look easy. He threw fluid combinations with good power and could get down and dirty when necessary. Tunney was the epitome of a thinking man's fighter as Jack Johnson before him and was skilled enough to conceivably defeat every man to ever hold the title.

10. George Foreman.....Two words: power and achievement. George Foreman had the power to render any heavyweight who ever lived senseless and was a wrecking machine in his prime, destroying Frazier and Norton within two rounds. He also possessed a fighters most valuable asset, heart, which he displayed aginst Lyle, Holyfield, Stewart, and Moorer. The fact that this man came back after a ten year retirement and continued facing younger, faster, opposistion to win the World Heavyweight Championship at the age of 45 is testamount to his will to win.

[joelouisbarrow]

thanks k-dogg..a really lucid and incise description of your top 10...best post ive read on this forum as of yet..though you seem to have your # 1 & 2 the wrong way round

[brownpimp88]

Holy also lost to Bowe twice out of three meetings and was knocked out once, which means he lost the series big time. That one win was by one point.

Yes he beat Moorer; but was Moorer a great heavyweight? Who did he beat? Bert Cooper? Alex Stewart? Francois Botha? How about Axel Shulz? Which one of these wins made Moorer such a great heavyweight that Holyfield going 1-1 with him automatically makes him a Top tenner?

wtf did tunney do besides beating an out of his prime dempsey, he beat a bunch of light heavyweights and a middleweight. O wow, what a great heavyweight! This is a joke.

[joelouisbarrow]

tunney lost 1 fight in his career..over 80 pro bouts and 1 loss...and that was against one of THE greatest fighters of all time...he was a smart thinker ( in and out of the ring )...easily one of the most adaptable heavyweights in history...he was ali before ali

[brownpimp88]

tunney lost 1 fight in his career..over 80 pro bouts and 1 loss...and that was against one of THE greatest fighters of all time...he was a smart thinker ( in and out of the ring )...easily one of the most adaptable heavyweights in history...he was ali before ali

Most of his fights were at light heavyweight, this is a thread based on who were the best heavyweights. I dont think joe frazier and holyfiled would get thier asses kicked by a middleweight. Joe Frazier easily accomplished more at Heavyweight, its a no brainer.

Joe Frazier was champ for 5 years during the peak of the division, what more can you ask than that.

Holyfield has beat like 10-12 former champs, tunney has beat 1, lmao.

[SABBATH]

thanks k-dogg..a really lucid and incise description of your top 10...best post ive read on this forum as of yet..though you seem to have your # 1 & 2 the wrong way round

No he's got #1 and #2 right!

Well written K-Dogg you make logical and justifiable points for each man. Our lists are a little different but I like that you have Foreman and Liston in there.

Foreman has the distinction of scoring KO's over top ten contenders from four different decades, the 60's (Chuvalo) 70's (Frazier, Norton, Lyle) 80's (Cooney) and 90's (Moorer).

[brownpimp88]

No he's got #1 and #2 right!

Well written K-Dogg you make logical and justifiable points for each man. Our lists are a little different but I like that you have Foreman and Liston in there.

Foreman has the distinction of scoring KO's over top ten contenders from four different decades, the 60's (Chuvalo) 70's (Frazier, Norton, Lyle) 80's (Cooney) and 90's (Moorer).

My top 10 is based on how good they are and how long of a title reign they had. I dont get why some people make frazier, holy and tyson as borderline and yet sonny liston is automatically top 10. Liston was champ for 15 minutes, his big wins are cleveland willams and floyd patterson, its not like his resume is incredible. This is my top 10 based on accomplishments and how good they are.

1.Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Joe Frazier
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Sonny Liston
10. Mike Tyson

Dempsey beat willard, firpo and sharkey. Yeah what a great resume for top 5. His best wins are gibbons and carpentier, two guys that are the same size as joe calzaghe.

[joelouisbarrow]

i liked frazier..i loved his swarming style BUT apart from ali and foreman who did he really fight ?...a blown up light heavy in foster...ellis and quarry who were only average imo and a handfull of non en****** ( i cant even think of their names )....i always rated holyfield even back when he was a cruiser