Who could beat a prime George Foreman?

[SABBATH]

Damn thats prolly better than my list, props. Both of us realize that jack johnson and jack dempsey had extremely weak competiton, the others just wont get it, its sad.

I love Jack Johnson but I have studied him on film since 1979 and try as I might I just don't see how his style would translate into the modern era.

I like to think certain fighters come along who revolutionize have an impact and affect boxing and cause aspects of fighting styles to progress. Influences and the effect their styles have on the next generation have to be considered.

Without Sugar Ray Robinson maybe there's no Ali. Without Ali maybe there's no Holmes or Sugar Ray Leonard. Without Leonard maybe there's no Pretty Boy Floyd Mayweather etc...

The gloved era of boxing was really in it's infancy back at the turn of the century. It's ludicrous to believe that styles didn't evolve somewhat in the last 100 years.

Having said that I will also add that god given athleticism, like speed, reflexes, co-ordination, conditioning, strength, toughness, determination, and ring smarts have always been prevalent in all of the great fighter to varying degrees irregardless of the era in which they fought in.

[PATO 1]

imo the people who could beat prime foreman are

Joe Louis
Muhammed Ali
Larry Holmes
Lennox Lewis
Evander Holyfield
Rid**** Bowe

[K-DOGG]

wtf did tunney do besides beating an out of his prime dempsey, he beat a bunch of light heavyweights and a middleweight. O wow, what a great heavyweight! This is a joke.

He weighed in the upper 180's and had a frame that could carry more.....more than Roy Jones could at heavy. And his skill is apparent in any film you view....that's why he's there.

[hemichromis]

My lists do take accomplishment into play, yes; but they are more based on skill displayed throughout a career, greatness proved in the ring, and has a touch of "how would they fair against any other fighter who ever lived.

I have had Frazier, Holyfield, and Tyson in my Top Ten when I was younger; but had to slide them due to the fighters who replaced them being, IMO, better.

1. Muhammad Ali......had to give him the #1 slot back primarily because I believe his competition was better than Louis's overall. Also, he is the fastest heavyweight of hand and foot who ever lived. He was eerily clever in the ring, flowed like water; he could adapt to his opposistion if "Plan A" wasn't working. He found a way to win against all odds. When the chips were down, you could never count him out.

2. Joe Louis.....Argueably the finest technical heavyweight who has ever lived. His punches were exact, precise, and served a purpose; he could knock you out with damn near any punch he threw and threw them all well, especially the jab, which is argueably the best in heavyweight history. He, even without WWII, defended his title 25 times over the course 8 years. Like Ali and all the greats, when pushed to the limit and his back placed against the wall, he always found a way to win as he did with Billy Conn when his title was lost. On the occassions where he faced a man more than once, he proved himself the better fighter in the rematch: Schmeling and Walcott are the most notable examples because he avenged a devastating loss under the most intense of circumstances and a perceived (and actual) loss at the end of his career when he was no longer a young man.

3. Jack Dempsey....Dempsey gets the number 3 slot due to a variety of reasons. He was the first truly modern heavyweight, which is notable; but more importantly, he was one of the most tenacious, vicious, and tireless aggressors the ring has ever seen. He was in there to kill or be killed; there was no quit in him, not an ounce. In two fights that I'm aware, Dempsey more or less admitted having very little recollection of knocking his opponent out after being nailed himself, one of which was the famous Luis Firpo fight. This is an example of his indomidable will to win in an age where there were very few rules to protect the fighter. He was a savage when the bell rang and would be a holy terror for any opponent past or present; and, as he proved agaisnt Tommy Gibbons, who was an accomplished technician of the day, he was capable of "boxing" when necessary: truly a man ahead of his time.

4. Jack Johnson.....Argueably the finest defensive heavyweight who has ever donned gloves. Johnson, after he came into his own, was light-years ahead of the competition, utilizing a blocking technique than picked off virtually every punch that came his way and allowed him countering opportunities. He had a fine jab which he could snake into a sneaky left hook. He possessed surprising strength on the inside, which he used to tie up his opponent and help wear them out down the stretch. A true thinking man's fighter, while boring to watch, he was extremely effective and capable of beating just about any heavyweight who has ever lived.

5. Larry Holmes....Had, along with Louis and Liston, one of the best jabs, if not the best, that the division has ever seen. A consumate professional, Larry would come into the ring with a well thought out game plan and stick to it until his opponent was either broken down and ready to be taken out, or until the judges announced the decision in his favour as was seen in his high-takes showdown with Gerry Cooney. He made 20 successful defenses of the heavyweight crown over the course of a 7 year reign and just nearly did tie Marciano's mark of 49-0. Larry displayed a fighter's heart on countless occassions, most notably against Weaver, Shavers, Snipes, and Witherspoon. Larry, quite often, was at his most dangerous when hurt and could never be counted out in his prime; argueably could have beaten any man who ever donned gloves.

6. Rocky Marciano....He was short, had short arms, was clumsy as hell in the beginning, and was one of the most awkward fighters ever to watch; but he made it work for him 49 times in a row. Argueably the best conditioned heavyweight to ever hold the crown; he had his body in condition to throw punches almost continuously for a full 15 rounds. Also, had a punch that could put any man on ***** street; and once hurt, was as relentless as a pit-bull to get you out of there, even if it meant bending the rules a little. Winning meant that much to him. He was more difficult to connect solidly on than is widey believed as he used his height, or lack of it, to his advantage against taller opponents, angling backwards in a crouch which forced taller opponents to get into his range in order to hit him, which opened up punching opportunites for Rocky. In addition to his longevity and toughness, he was tenacious. He would pound on you over and over on any target you gave him until they wore down and he then took them out. He may not be able to beat every heavyweight who ever lived; but, then again, he might as there is no blueprint as to how to beat him. Either way, they'd know they were in a scuffle by the time it ended.

7. Lennox Lewis...Was argueably the best figter in the post Tyson era beating every top contender available who would face him. His biggest assets were his size, power and boxing ability. He was big enough to keep most opponents on the outside with his telephone-pole jab and booming right hand. On the occassions where he was hurt, he showed heart; most notably against Bruno, Briggs, Holyfield, and Klitschko. On the occassions where he was defeated against McCall and Rahman, he avenged his defeats; against Rahman in a cold, calculating, and devastating fasion. By the time he retired, he had beaten every man he ever faced.


8. Sonny Liston.....As stated before, is in the top three as far as heavyweight jabs are concerned. And his was at the end of an 84" reach and tipped with a pair of mits so huge that he had to wear custom gloves. He was an above average technical fighter, who threw good combinations behind that smashing jab. He wa mean as they come in the ring; and powerful. He could take you out with any punch he threw. He was so dangerous that the manager of Floyd Patteson, the then-champ, refused to allow his charge to defend the belt against Sonny, even though he was the undisputed #1 contender and after cleaning out the best heavyweights in the division on his own to force a title shot, became recognized, more or less, as the uncrowned champion until he made it official by destroying Patterson in one. A prime Sonny Liston would be a dangerous opponent for any man to ever enter the ring past or present.

9. Gene Tunney.....One of the smartest fighter who ever lived. Tunney would study his opponents every move prior to getting in the ring with them, nitpicking every weakness and then exploiting them once in the ring. His fluid boxing style was a predecessor to Muhammad Ali, as he danced on his toes, fired a snapping jab and good straight right hand to control and dictate the pace of his bouts. Biggest heavyweight accomplishment was the dual defeat of Jack Dempsey, who while past his prime, was still a formidable opponent. Tunney made beating him look easy. He threw fluid combinations with good power and could get down and dirty when necessary. Tunney was the epitome of a thinking man's fighter as Jack Johnson before him and was skilled enough to conceivably defeat every man to ever hold the title.

10. George Foreman.....Two words: power and achievement. George Foreman had the power to render any heavyweight who ever lived senseless and was a wrecking machine in his prime, destroying Frazier and Norton within two rounds. He also possessed a fighters most valuable asset, heart, which he displayed aginst Lyle, Holyfield, Stewart, and Moorer. The fact that this man came back after a ten year retirement and continued facing younger, faster, opposistion to win the World Heavyweight Championship at the age of 45 is testamount to his will to win.

i don't agree with all of your list but i do agree with your reasons

i would definately have frazier up there because he would stand a good chance (better than 50% ) of beating any boxer on that list BUT i know foreman and liston would take him out early and in devastating fashion!

[SABBATH]

Oh, btw, Foreman stopped Cooney in 1990.

I know. Cooney was a top 10 contender from the 80's as Chuvalo was from the 60's.

[hemichromis]

wtf did tunney do besides beating an out of his prime dempsey, he beat a bunch of light heavyweights and a middleweight. O wow, what a great heavyweight! This is a joke.

tunney has been underrated for a long time all people see of him is him beating a washed up dempsey but he was one of the best 'boxers' of all time he was quick smart and had power when he wanted it too.

[brownpimp88]

He weighed in the upper 180's and had a frame that could carry more.....more than Roy Jones could at heavy. And his skill is apparent in any film you view....that's why he's there.

So even though joe frazier was champ and made more title defences, tunney is there because of his potential. He belongs on a light heavyweight list, just like ezzard, nuff said.

[K-DOGG]

I know. Cooney was a top 10 contender from the 80's as Chuvalo was from the 60's.

LOL!!! Okay, gotcha. I thought you might have meant that; but wasn't sure.

[K-DOGG]

So even though joe frazier was champ and made more title defences, tunney is there because of his potential. He belongs on a light heavyweight list, just like ezzard, nuff said.

Frazier's just outside of my Top 10 and Tunney's just inside. I love Joe Frazier and it bugged me taking him out of the top 10 almost as much as having Ali in at #2 for a while did. So, who knows, Joe might make a comeback. Still, Tunney's ability cannot be denied and if he'd not retired, it would have been proven against the likes of Sharkey, Schmeling, and Baer IMO.

[joelouisbarrow]

So even though joe frazier was champ and made more title defences, tunney is there because of his potential. He belongs on a light heavyweight list, just like ezzard, nuff said.

so going by your logic rocky marciano and dempsey should be on a light heavy list as they weighed only a few pounds more than tunney