Were Patterson and Ingo the worst heavyweight champs ever ?

[john l]

- -Mixed casualties son.

So, you thick as a Mick is it?

Bottomline is though JJ had worked up to contender status with Hart, their fight was so comically horrific that Jeff was right to have retired since he was a very big man hating to train himself down to a stick these many years.

JJ also dropped another regrettable fight to the novice Jeannette that year.

Had not Jack London issued the hue and cry for Jeff that ratcheted up the purses to record levels, he'd have never returned with 6 yrs blubber and rust.

Jeannette was a top fighter and NO NOVICE and now I know your just going off boxrec because they did not keep records very well in those days esp with Black fighters. Also he beat Jeannette a few times. Now im done repeating myself get off boxrec and watch tapes where there is and read from reports of the day. "thick as a mick" ha well what's that make you lol

[john l]

Yes, getting hammered by 179 pound Montell Griffin in 3 fights is really a testament to his punching power.

I do think he hit harder than Sharkey but both were capable of mowing Floyd down.

You’re getting confused between Carnera and Willard. Baer debuted long after Willard retired. Willard’s Jill was legitimate, he hit a man so hard that his jaw caved in to his brain and he died immediately, if that isn’t a feat of superhuman punching power I don’t know what is. Willard was unanimously considered the hardest puncher ever by period sources.

Willard was not considered a great anything in his time and I have researched him and have NEVER heard about "caved in jaw into brain" thing how about some links to all this BS. Your just making things up now as far as "considered hardest puncher by period sources"And yes I meant Carnera there as I got two of you guys trying to tell me how good both were lol.

[QueensburyRules]

Jeannette was a top fighter and NO NOVICE and now I know your just going off boxrec because they did not keep records very well in those days esp with Black fighters. Also he beat Jeannette a few times. Now im done repeating myself get off boxrec and watch tapes where there is and read from reports of the day. "thick as a mick" ha well what's that make you lol

- -No different than Dempsey Kid Blackie days. Boxrec can only go on the recorded record, but I'll return with my Jesnnette update...later...

[QueensburyRules]

- -Boxrec incorporated most all of the early work of historians at this site.

They don't mention Dempsey Kid Blackie days, but for Jeannette they include an interview where he implies no such early start other than they list.

As to Kid Blackie, he was bare knuckling in bars, mining and lumber camps early on. Prob a mgr saw him fight and turned him pro. He's got some bios out that doubtless go into more detail.

Gonna check out my bookseller to see if a Jeannette bio exists.

[Dempsey19]

Willard was not considered a great anything in his time and I have researched him and have NEVER heard about "caved in jaw into brain" thing how about some links to all this BS. Your just making things up now as far as "considered hardest puncher by period sources"And yes I meant Carnera there as I got two of you guys trying to tell me how good both were lol.

I’ve done some research and Willard’s kill was via cerebral haemorrhage (the smashing in jaw story seems to have been a creation of the media )

His punching power though is certain-

Featherweight champion of the world Eddie Santry-

“I was in the ring and right close to the men all the time and will say that Willard hits harder than any heavyweight in the game today. Fitzsimmons, when his hands were good, could not hit with more pile-driving force than this fellow.”

[john l]

I’ve done some research and Willard’s kill was via cerebral haemorrhage (the smashing in jaw story seems to have been a creation of the media )

His punching power though is certain-

Featherweight champion of the world Eddie Santry-

“I was in the ring and right close to the men all the time and will say that Willard hits harder than any heavyweight in the game today. Fitzsimmons, when his hands were good, could not hit with more pile-driving force than this fellow.”

OK I'm a little slow this week and just finally got it. This has NOTHING to do with Willard and its ALL about Dempsey. I can usually sniff out an agenda pretty quick, but for some reason you snuck by for a min. The reason I know is because Willard NEVER fought anybody but farm boys and NO ONE has ever spoke about him being a big puncher and I will lay this out ONE MORE TIME. Willard only fought 4 guys that anybody would remember or even really count. He lost to Gunboat Smith who was a decent fighter, but far from a world beater. The other guy is his only title defense and that was Moran I believe(I could be wrong about this)and he was a little guy and I know it went the distance I think it was a 20rder. Then you have the two guys who could fight and that was Johnson and Dempsey now Johnson was 37(old as he ll back then)and was losing the fight until Johnson gassed because of inactivity and age. Johnson also claimed he threw fight to get back in country. I don't believe that though because he was kicking his azz for most of fight and then gassed in the 100 degree heat. Now on to your REAL angle Dempsey......Well all I can say is Willard did have a HUGE heart lol.OH one last thing Fitzsimmons also was not a big puncher for Heavyweights he was a natural middle and went back down to light heavy after losing title to Jeffires. Even in his fight with an inactive Corbett he was losing until he caught a tired "Gentlemen Jim" with the solar flexis punch and KOed him. Very good fighter, but not a great heavy and deff not a big punching one. So that's it. I have heard what you had to say and I could not disagree more. Next time don't waste my time just come out and say what you REALLY wanted to and that's to try and build up Dempsey(who could fight, but not a top 5 guy imo)

[Rusty Tromboni]

LMAO you have no idea what your talking about!!! Johnson beat ALL the VERY good black fighters of the day. Guys you have never seen or heard about like Langford, McVey, Jeannette and even Denver Ed martin all better then Burns(except MAYBE Martin)Now im done repeating myself and you have boxing homework to do.

That's adorable. You know how to use BoxRec.

I am going to print out this post of yours, hang it on my fridge.

And guess what, buddy!?!?

You get a STICKER!!! yay!

If you stop eating the crayons... You'll get TWO!

[QueensburyRules]

- -Jess laid out JJOHNSON for 5 min with leaping straight right he'd been setting up the whole fight.

Not bad for a turn of the century cowboy raised on the range in Indian country who didn't turn pro til he was 29.

[Dempsey19]

OK I'm a little slow this week and just finally got it. This has NOTHING to do with Willard and its ALL about Dempsey. I can usually sniff out an agenda pretty quick, but for some reason you snuck by for a min. The reason I know is because Willard NEVER fought anybody but farm boys and NO ONE has ever spoke about him being a big puncher and I will lay this out ONE MORE TIME. Willard only fought 4 guys that anybody would remember or even really count. He lost to Gunboat Smith who was a decent fighter, but far from a world beater. The other guy is his only title defense and that was Moran I believe(I could be wrong about this)and he was a little guy and I know it went the distance I think it was a 20rder. Then you have the two guys who could fight and that was Johnson and Dempsey now Johnson was 37(old as he ll back then)and was losing the fight until Johnson gassed because of inactivity and age. Johnson also claimed he threw fight to get back in country. I don't believe that though because he was kicking his azz for most of fight and then gassed in the 100 degree heat. Now on to your REAL angle Dempsey......Well all I can say is Willard did have a HUGE heart lol.OH one last thing Fitzsimmons also was not a big puncher for Heavyweights he was a natural middle and went back down to light heavy after losing title to Jeffires. Even in his fight with an inactive Corbett he was losing until he caught a tired "Gentlemen Jim" with the solar flexis punch and KOed him. Very good fighter, but not a great heavy and deff not a big punching one. So that's it. I have heard what you had to say and I could not disagree more. Next time don't waste my time just come out and say what you REALLY wanted to and that's to try and build up Dempsey(who could fight, but not a top 5 guy imo)

I’m no Rusty Tromboni, I don’t have any secret agenda.

You said Fitzsimmons was not a hard puncher and then you talk about a fight which he was losing on the cards and then got a 1 punch KO in ? The testament of a puncher ! Fitzsimmons was not a puncher at heavy ? The same Fitzsimmons who blew away Tom Sharkey, Gus Ruhlin and the 300 pound Ed Dunkhorst (in 1 if I remember correctly) Who once KOed 7 superheavyweights in 12 rounds on one night ? The same Fitzsimmons who when past his prime left Prime Jeffries’ face looking like an anatomy chart ?

[ShoulderRoll]

Willard was a big man, and strong from farm work.

Aside from that he wasn't anything special. Not impressed with the film of him.