Alis chin overated?

[GoldenGloveLove]

He got hit quite a lot IMO.

He didn't get hit much in the 60's but definitely in the 70's.

Even then, Liston landed some clean shots on him and was never hurt. Cooper obviously hurt him but that was perhaps the sole time in the 60's.

The shot that Frazier put him down with in the first fight would have taken out most and Ali got straight back up. He took a hell of a lot of punishment in the first and third Frazier fight alone.

Earnie Shavers landed a shot that would have taken out most on Ali and he took it.

Foreman landed some damaging heavy blows.

Larry Holmes put an absolute beating on him and he stayed on his feet.

I would say Ali's chin isn't overrated. It's one of the best of all time.

LOL Don't worry it's not an opinion that he got hit a lot. It's a fact anyone can see because IT'S ON FILM. I don't even know what we're talking about here. Ali's chin is as tested as anyone's and it passed with flying colors! Come on now people! Ya'll about to make me lose my mind!

[LacedUp]

I wonder about that ... ali was wobbly as **** whe he got up, no don't about that and seriously hurt but looking at his later career and how he survived when badly hurt against guys like shavers and frazier i'd have a su****ion that somehow he would manage to survive against cooper. Maybe he'd go down again but he'd get up again, he'd wobble he'd get pounded, but I just think he would somehow survive and come back in the next round and get the win. This guy was not just once in a lifetime he was once in a forever.

I dont think he would have. He did well to get up after three secs, but he was unconscious on the stool. He would have been counted out standing, unless a miracle happened.

The crazy thing about it was the he was barely hit in the 5th and his mind was clear enough for him to target that swollen eye of Coopers.

And he was 21 years old at the time I believe.

[spam]

Ali was knocked down, McCall and Chuvalo were never down. year Ali has a better chin than either of them. That seems about right. Larry Holmes wasn't a big puncher so Ali not going down proved nothing. Holmes couldn't even knock down the so called glass chin Ken Norton. Frazier landed numerous punches on Ali so that proves what? Joe Frazier punches had no effect on Foreman and I could never imagining them ever having effect on Foreman no matter how many times he hit him.

Ali did a lot of holding and grabbing and moving away. He wasn't walking into punches like Foreman, Chuvalo or McCall did.Do you believe a 43 year old Ali could take the punches Foreman did again Holyfield and not go down? Do you believe Ali could take the punches Foreman did against Moorer when he was 45 like Foreman did? I highly doubt it.

Back to Frazier for a second. Frazier was a break you down puncher not a one punch KO artist. Somebody said earlier Ali took Foreman's best punches. No Frazier, Norton, Chuvalo got hit clean by Foreman. Ali never took direct blows from Foreman.

Ali took some hard punches from Shavers? You mean the same Shavers who was knocked out in 1 round by Quarry and knocked out by Ron Stander too. Shavers power is overrated. He never knocked out a world class fighter in his career. Don't say Ali said he punched him harder then anybody either. Ali never gives Frazier credit for knocking him down but gives Shavers credit for stunning him when he was out of shape.

Various heavyweights had better chins than a prime Ali. Ray Mercer, David Tua, George Foreman, Evander Holyfield, George Chuvalo and Oliver McCall. Ali had a good chin but not as as people make it out to be. It is like people will tell you Rocky Marciano was a great punching heavyweight when he was never a heavyweight and the only heavyweight he actually knocked out washed up Joe Louis who had a week chin anyway. But because the boxing media tells you he was this great heavyweight puncher you will believe that like you believe Ali had the greatest chin in heavyweight history when he didnt

[K-DOGG]

Ali could defintly take a punch but did he have one of the best chins of all time? He rarely took any clean shots to the chin and when he did he was floored and the left hook seems to be his weakness, that shot could land because he dint have his hands up and it impacted his head more than glancing overhand rights. Also seems to be a mixture of his heart and intelligence, that kept him from going down and kept his opponents from knowing he was hurt. Even though Ali got hit in the foreman fight, the headshots he took were absorbed by the gloves and the rope a dope and nothing really accurate, if foreman landed clean I think ali would be out. Personally I don't think his chin was close to the guys like mcall, holyfield, big George, chuvalo which makes him greater than he already is

Sonny Liston landed clean in Round 5, while Clay was blind, so he took a good punch then.

Foreman did catch him clean on more than one occasion. Shavers damn near knocked him out in round 2.

I mean I could give other examples; but I think the answer is an overwhelming "no", it wasn't overrated. Getting dropped does not denote that you have a bad chin necessarily.....not being able to get up does.

Ali, being human and getting hit with hellacious shots from Banks, Cooper, and Frazier that put him down must be put in the context of him being a very young fighter for the first two knockdowns. Also, I don't think he saw the Cooper shot. With Frazier, he might have seen it; but his legs could no longer move him out of the way....and let's face it, that was one hum dinger of a left hook that put Ali on the seat of his pants.

The best example of Ali's chin though, is the Shavers fight. Ali was 35, so far over the hill he was under it, took Shaver's right hand flush.....and didn't see it. That was a good right over a lazy jab. If you can take Shaver's best shot, you gotta chin.

[Tommo1]

Let's be honest here guys because I'm gonna spell it out real slow for the nostalgist to follow...

Nobody is saying Ali had bad chin. A fighter who got completely walloped as much as Ali did and won/fought on as long as he did MUST have good chin.

However it is equally true that Ali's chin is COMPLETELY overrated.

Why?

Ali from the 70's onward after exile was heftier and stronger and did display good chin. But his chin WAS NEVER TESTED against real power punchers bar a few exceptions. In those exceptions (i.e. Foreman is the main case) when did you see the unco Foreman land cleanly on Ali's head? I can't remember a single flush power punch that the wild madman landed on the rope-a-doping Ali.

Obviously besides Foreman, none of Ali's opponents could really **** worth a damn compared with say the opponents of modern boxers. Holyfield was ****** out by Bowe. Lewis dropped by Rahman. Wladimir wasted by Sanders.

The reason such things happened to them and not to Ali is that by comparison, Ali's opponents COULD NOT PUNCH THROUGH THE SURFACE TENSION OF WATER!

Now regarding Ali's PRIME 60's self and his Cassius Clay days, who did he fight? Nobody worthwhile. Liston was greatest opponent but had not a hope against Ali really. However ppl forget or try to cover up the fact that this Ali was floored by a 185lb blown up light heavyweight called Henry Cooper who should fairly and under modern rules certainly would have knocked Clay out who had to cheat by getting extra time for his gloves to recover.

Let me rephrase that "Were Ali to have competed under modern rules, prime Ali would have been knocked out or disqualified not just by a CW but by a 185lb guy, 15lbs lighter than ANY CW today of no appreciable skill/record at all!"

This is the reality of Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali.

NO modern champ who was rumoured to possess a weak chin from Tommy Morrison, Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko would EVER EVER be threatened or wobbled by such a feeble opponent. They only ever got dropped by butts, massive combinations or single huge punches or other non-chin related factors at all like gassing and medical issues.

Now let's get back to normal, I am not saying Ali has bad chin, Ali has good chin alright, no problem, no denying. But any talk of his having "among the hardest chins in history" is merely more good old times talk!

MYTH BUSTED!

[Daddy T]

Let's be honest here guys because I'm gonna spell it out real slow for the nostalgist to follow...

Nobody is saying Ali had bad chin. A fighter who got completely walloped as much as Ali did and won/fought on as long as he did MUST have good chin.

However it is equally true that Ali's chin is COMPLETELY overrated.

Why?

Ali from the 70's onward after exile was heftier and stronger and did display good chin. But his chin WAS NEVER TESTED against real power punchers bar a few exceptions. In those exceptions (i.e. Foreman is the main case) when did you see the unco Foreman land cleanly on Ali's head? I can't remember a single flush power punch that the wild madman landed on the rope-a-doping Ali.

Obviously besides Foreman, none of Ali's opponents could really **** worth a damn compared with say the opponents of modern boxers. Holyfield was ****** out by Bowe. Lewis dropped by Rahman. Wladimir wasted by Sanders.

The reason such things happened to them and not to Ali is that by comparison, Ali's opponents COULD NOT PUNCH THROUGH THE SURFACE TENSION OF WATER!

Now regarding Ali's PRIME 60's self and his Cassius Clay days, who did he fight? Nobody worthwhile. Liston was greatest opponent but had not a hope against Ali really. However ppl forget or try to cover up the fact that this Ali was floored by a 185lb blown up light heavyweight called Henry Cooper who should fairly and under modern rules certainly would have knocked Clay out who had to cheat by getting extra time for his gloves to recover.

Let me rephrase that "Were Ali to have competed under modern rules, prime Ali would have been knocked out or disqualified not just by a CW but by a 185lb guy, 15lbs lighter than ANY CW today of no appreciable skill/record at all!"

This is the reality of Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali.

NO modern champ who was rumoured to possess a weak chin from Tommy Morrison, Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko would EVER EVER be threatened or wobbled by such a feeble opponent. They only ever got dropped by butts, massive combinations or single huge punches or other non-chin related factors at all like gassing and medical issues.

Now let's get back to normal, I am not saying Ali has bad chin, Ali has good chin alright, no problem, no denying. But any talk of his having "among the hardest chins in history" is merely more good old times talk!

MYTH BUSTED!

OBVIOUSLY you have never heard of Ernie Shavers - universally regarded as one of the hardest punchers of all time. Please keep posting so you can pretend you actually had heard of shavers and aren't just a no clue kid who has never been in the ring and knows precisely dick about boxing. Watching you try to post an intelligent argument is like watching a ******ed chimp try to do calculus

[Tommo1]

Oh Earnie Shavers! That guy!

Well in case you haven't heard Shaver's punching power is overrated to the point where Ali's chin becomes a non issue.

Shaver's KO ratio is stellar on paper. Until we see what kinds of opponents Shaver's did in fact KO. It seems Shaver's who although a small HW always boxed above 200lbs, was a master at knocking out what we today would regard as cruiser weights. Whan we analyse Shaver's performance against real HW's like himself it turns out Shavers KO ratio was nothing special, 60 odd percent. When we analyse his performance against 215+ opponents, the minimum he'd face today and incidentally the weight of Ali then we see Shaver's rates so low he even makes Chris Byrd look decent.

We can also look at it another way. Who the hell worth a damn did Shaver's beat with his super punch? Ken Norton, that's about it! A glass jawed HW with a non-existent punch himself. I am not impressed!

Shaver's was a power puncher for his era but is not a power puncher by the standards we would consider today. He is dangerous mainly in the early rounds against bums and cruisers.

One final point, the top boxers who claimed Shavers to be the hardest puncher all got up to whip Shaver's and in some cases like Holmes were knocked clean out by other boxers. Cooney and Tyson obviously hit harder. Foreman and Lyle obviously hit harder.

And look at Shavers and look at him punch. Then look at say, Tommy Morrison... THAT is a hard puncher! There is no comparison between Shavers and a real power puncher like Tommy.

I'd say that's another MYTH BUSTED!

Ali faced little punch threat with that iron chin of his!

[joseph5620]

Oh Earnie Shavers! That guy!

Well in case you haven't heard Shaver's punching power is overrated to the point where Ali's chin becomes a non issue.

Shaver's KO ratio is stellar on paper. Until we see what kinds of opponents Shaver's did in fact KO. It seems Shaver's who although a small HW always boxed above 200lbs, was a master at knocking out what we today would regard as cruiser weights. Whan we analyse Shaver's performance against real HW's like himself it turns out Shavers KO ratio was nothing special, 60 odd percent. When we analyse his performance against 215+ opponents, the minimum he'd face today and incidentally the weight of Ali then we see Shaver's rates so low he even makes Chris Byrd look decent.

We can also look at it another way. Who the hell worth a damn did Shaver's beat with his super punch? Ken Norton, that's about it! A glass jawed HW with a non-existent punch himself. I am not impressed!

Shaver's was a power puncher for his era but is not a power puncher by the standards we would consider today. He is dangerous mainly in the early rounds against bums and cruisers.

One final point, the top boxers who claimed Shavers to be the hardest puncher all got up to whip Shaver's and in some cases like Holmes were knocked clean out by other boxers. Cooney and Tyson obviously hit harder. Foreman and Lyle obviously hit harder.

And look at Shavers and look at him punch. Then look at say, Tommy Morrison... THAT is a hard puncher! There is no comparison between Shavers and a real power puncher like Tommy.

I'd say that's another MYTH BUSTED!

Ali faced little punch threat with that iron chin of his!

Joe Frazier, Ron Lyle. Two more names that you can write nonsense about. You lost all credibility with your first post.

[Tommo1]

Joe Frazier, a totally exposed featherfist and china chin.

Ron Lyle, good opponent and impressive win for Ali. Had real power. Nothing bad to say!

The credibility is lost when someone with a chin untested against flush hard punches from the hardest punchers is rated among the hardest chins of all time.

And the credibility is lost when someone is declared the hardest puncher when demonstratably never applying that power to beat anybody worthwhile!

[joseph5620]

Joe Frazier, a totally exposed featherfist and china chin.

Ron Lyle, good opponent and impressive win for Ali. Had real power. Nothing bad to say!

The credibility is lost when someone with a chin untested against flush hard punches from the hardest punchers is rated among the hardest chins of all time.

And the credibility is lost when someone is declared the hardest puncher when demonstratably never applying that power to beat anybody worthwhile!

Okay, I get it. You're a troll and probably an alt. Have fun.