Jack Johnson Admits He Was Genuinely KO'd

[solidman]

I don't understand why there was no money in the fight. It would have been two great fighters going at it.

[Willie Pep 229]

I don't understand why there was no money in the fight. It would have been two great fighters going at it.

Greb became "greater" than he actually was because he had the good fortune to die young.

When Greb fought the blown-up WW Micky Walker, Greb was only a slight favorite and Walker took him the distance.

Most people didn't think Greb a serious challenge to Dempsey, and the limited interest resulted in limited money being avaiable.

If the interest was there the money would have been there (and Tex Rickard would have found it.)

Harry Greb then, was not the lesser-god he has been made into, especially on this forum.

P.S. All the pro-Greb vs. Dempsey noise of the period, was driven by Greb's people, Floyd Fitzsimmons in particular. But the newspaper guys were never all in. The newspaper guys were calling for the Wills fight.

[BKM-]

Greb became "greater" than he actually was because he had the good fortune to die young.

When Greb fought the blown-up WW Micky Walker, Greb was only a slight favorite and Walker took him the distance.

Most people didn't think Greb a serious challenge to Dempsey, and the limited interest resulted in limited money being avaiable.

If the interest was there the money would have been there (and Tex Rickard would have found it.)

Harry Greb then, was not the lesser-god he has been made into, especially on this forum.

P.S. All the pro-Greb vs. Dempsey noise of the period, was driven by Greb's people, Floyd Fitzsimmons in particular. But the newspaper guys were never all in. The newspaper guys were calling for the Wills fight.

I agree. Dempsey has slowly turned into "just another ATG HW". But at the time during his peak he was a mega star the likes we have not seen too many of since.

[JAB5239]

Greb became "greater" than he actually was because he had the good fortune to die young.

When Greb fought the blown-up WW Micky Walker, Greb was only a slight favorite and Walker took him the distance.

Most people didn't think Greb a serious challenge to Dempsey, and the limited interest resulted in limited money being avaiable.

If the interest was there the money would have been there (and Tex Rickard would have found it.)

Harry Greb then, was not the lesser-god he has been made into, especially on this forum.

P.S. All the pro-Greb vs. Dempsey noise of the period, was driven by Greb's people, Floyd Fitzsimmons in particular. But the newspaper guys were never all in. The newspaper guys were calling for the Wills fight.

I think it's unfair to use the Walker fight. Let's not forget that Mickey actually had a draw with heavyweight Jack Sharkey. Walker was very formidable at any weight.

[MarbleFallsMauler]

YOu keep saying that. I assume it is because Greb was excellent but I question how this in itself should make a heavyweight face a middle weight. To be fair you are not alone in that opinion. I believe Clompton (sp?) was adament about this. He wrote a book about it. I just do not see the logic anymore than saying Dempsey should have fought Hank Armstrong, or Ray Robinson.

With Tunney it is a different situation because Tunney was a light heavy. The difference in weight and size was negligable. Tunney was in fact a greater light heavy than heavyweight. But you are entitled to your opinion.

Klompton (his posting id) hates Dempsey with a passion beyond belief. He will post pages and pages of threats and innuendos on the subject of Dempsey ducking Wills. A shame as his Greb book is fantastic.

[Dr Z]

them_apples

It looked like a clean Ko. He got stretched and the shot looked hard too. It was also very late in the fight. Why would someone wait that long to throw a fight

If we watch the films, which most of you don't, Willard nearly Ko'd Johnson in the 25th round with a body shot. I have seen the existing rounds and most of the rounds shown ( 15 on ) went to Willard.

We can be sure which fights were pre arranged with Johnson, including the one he won. But Willard knocked him flat on his back.

[QueensburyRules]

I don't understand why there was no money in the fight. It would have been two great fighters going at it.

- - Boxing was still illegal in lost of jurisdictions as John L could testify with all his jailings. When Dempsey came along, he was such a magnetic concussive fighter, he put the $$$ into boxing becoming a spectacle sport at certain times and places in history up to today's heavy division in Saudi Arabia...

[Bronson66]

image.png

"It was a clean knockout and the best man won. It was not a matter of luck. I have no kick coming." Jack Johnson after he lost his world heavyweight title via 26th-round KO to the massive hard-hitting 'Pottawatomie Giant' Jess Willard in Havana in 1915.
The once-invincible Johnson appeared far older than his 37 years. “Time had done its work,” the Associated Press reported. “It had been the opinion of Johnson and many of his friends that he did not have to be in the best of condition to whip Willard, underrating the latter’s splendid condition and youthful stamina.” After the fight, referee Jack Welch said: "If I had been compelled to give a decision at the end of the twenty-fifth round, it would have been Johnson's by a wide margin. Up to the twentieth round, Willard had one won only one round by a real margin and two or three others by the slightest shade. In the thirteenth and fourteenth, I was almost sure Johnson would knock Willard out, but Willard showed that his jaw and body were too tough. Johnson put up a wonderful fight to the twentieth round, but age stepped in then and defeated him."
Johnson initially handled the defeat with grace.
Nine months later, however, Johnson dramatically changed his tune and controversially claimed he had thrown the fight.
“Nobody ever took Johnson’s charges of fakery seriously,” promoter Jack Curley said years later. “He was well past his prime, fat and dissipated, and he was worn down and knocked out by a strong, game and well-conditioned opponent.”

Some BS being propagated about this fight by the Chief Johnson Hater.
Lies like Willard won the rounds after the 15th ,that he nearly ko'd Johnson in the 25th.

For the record Johnson was well in front after 25 rds.Willard landed a big shot to Johnson chest in the 25th rd,but Johnson was not nearly ko'd by it ,he was nearing exhaustion,after fighting as game a fight as anyone,not in top shape and 37 years old fighting against a giant, could do.
The referee Jack Welch stated had the fight been 25rds he would have had no hesitation in raising Johnsons hand.

I bought this fight over 50 years ago.

[billeau2]

Klompton (his posting id) hates Dempsey with a passion beyond belief. He will post pages and pages of threats and innuendos on the subject of Dempsey ducking Wills. A shame as his Greb book is fantastic.

YES! I got into with him on several occasions lol. He tried to use arguments related to status. I had to inform him that there were other boxing writers who felt contrary to his opinion. I hate arguments of status.

[Dr Z]

Some BS being propagated about this fight by the Chief Johnson Hater.
Lies like Willard won the rounds after the 15th ,that he nearly ko'd Johnson in the 25th.

For the record Johnson was well in front after 25 rds.Willard landed a big shot to Johnson chest in the 25th rd,but Johnson was not nearly ko'd by it ,he was nearing exhaustion,after fighting as game a fight as anyone,not in top shape and 37 years old fighting against a giant, could do.
The referee Jack Welch stated had the fight been 25rds he would have had no hesitation in raising Johnsons hand.

I bought this fight over 50 years ago.

You don't haven't likely rounds seen I am talking about and folded like a chair when I invited you to score the rounds with me.

I listed facts. Now behave or maybe I'll invite the K-man to this board. He will tear Dempsey a new one. And called out your BS on Johnson too.