Who wins the battle of the Joe's?

[QueensburyRules]

Finally admits it. Sounds like the type of guy that voted for Trump. Makes about as much sense too.

- -What grade U in now, Anthony? U still got all them muscly 'rassler posters up in U bedroom

[Willie Pep 229]

I thought the HW lineage was pretty much a consensus . . . I guess there could be some dispute between Foreman II and Fury today.

One dispute finds me wanting to include Oliver McCall on the list while most don't.

Lewis was at the time of the upset neither lineal or undisputed champ but would become both in due course.

It is a strange logic but try to look at it this way . . . if Ali had won 'The Fight' in March '71 it is likely we would be referring to both Quarry ('70) and Bonavena ('70) as title defenses today.*

The fact that Lewis went on to bring it all home makes me see all his WBC defenses as legit HW title defenses without qualification as well. He was the guy whether the other bodies wanted to recognize him or not (at the time) and that puts McCall IMHO in the lineal mix. (My Two cents).

I think the same logic should be applied to all of Holmes defenses pre-Ali as well. (As most do; but not Lewis for some reason.)


* Both fights were scheduled for the championship distance of 15 rounds.

[JAB5239]

I thought the HW lineage was pretty much a consensus . . . I guess there could be some dispute between Foreman II and Fury today.

One dispute finds me wanting to include Oliver McCall on the list while most don't.

Lewis was at the time of the upset neither lineal or undisputed champ but would become both in due course.

It is a strange logic but try to look at it this way . . . if Ali had won 'The Fight' in March '71 it is likely we would be referring to both Quarry ('70) and Bonavena ('70) as title defenses today.*

The fact that Lewis went on to bring it all home makes me see all his WBC defenses as legit HW title defenses without qualification as well. He was the guy whether the other bodies wanted to recognize him or not (at the time) and that puts McCall IMHO in the lineal mix. (My Two cents).

I think the same logic should be applied to all of Holmes defenses pre-Ali as well. (As most do; but not Lewis for some reason.)


* Both fights were scheduled for the championship distance of 15 rounds.

In the case of Holmes I believe it works because both he and Norton were the number one and two contenders fighting for the title(lineal) that Ali had vacated upon retiring. Than again, Holmes fought Norton a few months before Ali retired after beating Spinks. Either way, Holmes- Norton was the last time the number one and two contenders fought until Tyson-Spinks if I'm not mistaken. I suppose this could be argued both ways, but Holmes was seen as the best heavyweight in the world either way and cemented lineal when beating the shell of Ali.

Spink beat Holmes for lineal,, than Tyson beat Spinks.Tyson was lineal until he lost to Douglas, who lost to Vander. Holy lost to Bowe, won back lineal and than lost to Moorer. George beat Moorer for lineal. He than lost it to Briggs who lost to Lewis for lineal in 1998 marking Lewis' first year as lineal champion. Rahman beat Lewis in 2001 taking lineal and loses it back later that year. Lewis retires as the lineal champion in 2003. It's vacant until Wlad defeats Ibragimov and unifies the titles against the highest rated contender and last major title holder besides himself. Fury beats Wlad and has held lineal since.

EDIT: Wlad won the lineal title when he defeated Chagaev in 2009. I originally though he beat Ibragimov to claim that status.

[QueensburyRules]

In the case of Holmes I believe it works because both he and Norton were the number one and two contenders fighting for the title(lineal) that Ali had vacated upon retiring. Than again, Holmes fought Norton a few months before Ali retired after beating Spinks. Either way, Holmes- Norton was the last time the number one and two contenders fought until Tyson-Spinks if I'm not mistaken. I suppose this could be argued both ways, but Holmes was seen as the best heavyweight in the world either way and cemented lineal when beating the shell of Ali.

Spink beat Holmes for lineal,, than Tyson beat Spinks.Tyson was lineal until he lost to Douglas, who lost to Vander. Holy lost to Bowe, won back lineal and than lost to Moorer. George beat Moorer for lineal. He than lost it to Briggs who lost to Lewis for lineal in 1998 marking Lewis' first year as lineal champion. Rahman beat Lewis in 2001 taking lineal and loses it back later that year. Lewis retires as the lineal champion in 2003. It's vacant until Wlad defeats Ibragimov and unifies the titles against the highest rated contender and last major title holder besides himself. Fury beats Wlad and has held lineal since.

EDIT: Wlad won the lineal title when he defeated Chagaev in 2009. I originally though he beat Ibragimov to claim that status.

- -Ali lineal title was stripped by the WBC. Arum paid Ali to retire for Coetzee/Tate that occurred the next month.

Sad thing to see that I have to school lineal boys on their lineal title that was bestowed on Tate and subsequent WBA champs that tubby Lar who was still skinny then ducked.

[JAB5239]

- -Ali lineal title was stripped by the WBC. Arum paid Ali to retire for Coetzee/Tate that occurred the next month.

Sad thing to see that I have to school lineal boys on their lineal title that was bestowed on Tate and subsequent WBA champs that tubby Lar who was still skinny then ducked.

Lineal can't be stripped the any ABC org and it didn't say that anyway. Holmes was lineal after Ali....deal with it.

But here you go since you're so quick to use boxrec for EVERYTHING!!

[QueensburyRules]

Lineal can't be stripped the any ABC org and it didn't say that anyway. Holmes was lineal after Ali....deal with it.

But here you go since you're so quick to use boxrec for EVERYTHING!!

- -Boxrec ain't the final say in lineal.

Anyone claiming lineal for beating a 6 years retired obese champ or a 3 yrs retired morbidly sick champ has a sick lineal claim, hence my dismissal of lineal as the be all end all source of titles.

[JAB5239]

- -Boxrec ain't the final say in lineal.

Anyone claiming lineal for beating a 6 years retired obese champ or a 3 yrs retired morbidly sick champ has a sick lineal claim, hence my dismissal of lineal as the be all end all source of titles.

Really? But you claimed via boxrec that Coetzee-Tate was for the lineal tile because the WBC stripped Ali of the lineal title. So which is it? I gave you a link showing boxrec considered Holmes the lineal champion, never the way you tried to pass it off. Here's another link.



and another...



And another....



An explanation of lineal for you since you're to dense to understand it...



another list....



I could do this all day!!! You my drunken friend, you're an idiot. You're right about one thing though....boxrec isn't the final say!!

[QueensburyRules]

Really? But you claimed via boxrec that Coetzee-Tate was for the lineal tile because the WBC stripped Ali of the lineal title. So which is it? I gave you a link showing boxrec considered Holmes the lineal champion, never the way you tried to pass it off. Here's another link.



and another...



And another....



An explanation of lineal for you since you're to dense to understand it...



another list....



I could do this all day!!! You my drunken friend, you're an idiot. You're right about one thing though....boxrec isn't the final say!!

- -A typhoon of droolings by the village idiot is it now?

[JAB5239]

- -A typhoon of droolings by the village idiot is it now?

Please find my a lineal list that doesn't have e Holmes on it but John Tate instead. Oh that's right, the missing link doesn't provide links. Aren't you tired of getting schooled today? Go crawl back into your bottle.

[QueensburyRules]

Please find my a lineal list that doesn't have e Holmes on it but John Tate instead. Oh that's right, the missing link doesn't provide links. Aren't you tired of getting schooled today? Go crawl back into your bottle.

- -There was never a link I'm aware of showing Tate as lineal, but plenty of Lar supporters like to start his lineal at Norton, so I like to point out Ali was stripped by the WBC and Tate more worthy so dummies like U can get U soiled shorts into a squeegie twist.

You're welcome!