Al Haymon plummet $434 million in a single year?

[OnePunch]

Why would I care about some fan made posting which is what SB nation is, he is using public figures but has no real understanding of what is going on underneath.

There is a lot of assumption going on, there was never going to be profit in year 1, 2 or 3, probably not until after 5 could they even hope of breaking even and maybe making money after 10. That is the sort of game they were playing so even looking at this like oh they did that and this, they are exactly where they are supposed to be in all reality in year 2. Thinking they should be on some different plane making money hand over fist is just not how this sort of thing works, especially when disrupting a whole industry it takes time and money to be effective.

That money needed to be spent, it was there to be spent or burned that was what PBC was supposed to do. They could easily fail and everybody that knew a lick about business said the same thing, but nothing has really changed if they fail in year two their plan was always faulty because their plan was always a long term one to success.

you cant compare a PBC investment to a traditional business investment. Sure, most businesses lose money initially, because they are investing in hard assets, real estate, and maybe a small portion for operating capital. EVERYTHING that PBC has spent has pretty much been on operating capital. Money paid to Thurman, Garcia, etc will be meaningless in 10 years because they likely will be retired, or perhaps have a few losses, or may have lost fan appeal, or whatever. "Boxing" as an entity will likely NEVER sell to the casuals on a wide scale, because the casuals are too wrapped up in individual fighters to appreciate the overall sport. I believe the generic "boxing" market reaches its ceiling on platforms like Friday Night Fights, and Boxeo Telemundo. Even series like The Contender ultimately were failures.

[boliodogs]

I don't think the guy is good for boxing. He manages over 200 high ranked boxers and many of them are very high ranked welterweights who should be fighting each other. How can that not be a conflict of interest? It's like a couple getting a divorce and both having the same lawyer. Lara and Danny Garcia used to fight top competition until they hooked up with Haymon and then they stopped fighting top competition and took only safe fights they almost couldn't lose. Porter vs Thurman was good but lots more match ups like that between Haymon managed or advised boxers should have been made by now.

[The Tribe]

you cant compare a PBC investment to a traditional business investment. Sure, most businesses lose money initially, because they are investing in hard assets, real estate, and maybe a small portion for operating capital. EVERYTHING that PBC has spent has pretty much been on operating capital. Money paid to Thurman, Garcia, etc will be meaningless in 10 years because they likely will be retired, or perhaps have a few losses, or may have lost fan appeal, or whatever. "Boxing" as an entity will likely NEVER sell to the casuals on a wide scale, because the casuals are too wrapped up in individual fighters to appreciate the overall sport. I believe the generic "boxing" market reaches its ceiling on platforms like Friday Night Fights, and Boxeo Telemundo. Even series like The Contender ultimately were failures.

my ***** stop using all these complecated words you losing me with this "operating capitol" **** my *****.

[The Gambler1981]

Wrong

It is an investment fund and promises (but not guarantees) a return (i.e. profit) to investors

The investors are not in it for the long term and had/have no intention of waiting around for years before this thing made a profit

Haymon and Waddell & Reed have sold investors down the river on this one and that is why the latter is being sued

More fool them btw as it was a **** idea from the outset

Investments carry risks and PBC is a small one albeit a risky one no doubt. If you are investing in a hedge fund you usually are in for the long run because it costs money to redeem your funds ahead of time or outside of certain windows.

Plus lots of trends changed this year in investing putting all these drop on PBC rather than China stagnating, emerging markets ****ting the bed or oil remaining depressed. Those are more likely causes for their downturn, and they likely bet the wrong way nothing is illegal about incompetence.

[Fetta]

What the **** is this rambling nonsense???

If boxing was under one umbrella then that would be a monopoly you
dumb mother****er.

Now if boxing was "1 umbrella" how would that insure matchups between
top guys??
Haymon has lots of top guys in many weights and they don't fight each other now. Why would that change if fighters were under 1 umbrella??

You want to make something simple into something difficult.

Its simple to grasp but not for you.

Stay angry and confused

[Boxfan83]

I think to many posters are treating the sport like the movies-they only want to watch if their favorite actor/actress is in it.

I grew up watching boxing regardless of who was on and got more excited when it was a guy I liked. Nowadays it seems posters only wath and get excited if its a guy they like or a name.

lol! Yeah I agree.

The only thing is like any other sport, boxing needs its casuals in order to be really profitable or mainstream. Even the NFL, MLB, & NBA does suddle things to attract women and kids. Hell the UFC has done well also, one of the main reasons for the UFC success is they have the eye of women and kids.

[North Star]

Why would I care about some fan made posting which is what SB nation is, he is using public figures but has no real understanding of what is going on underneath.

There is a lot of assumption going on, there was never going to be profit in year 1, 2 or 3, probably not until after 5 could they even hope of breaking even and maybe making money after 10. That is the sort of game they were playing so even looking at this like oh they did that and this, they are exactly where they are supposed to be in all reality in year 2. Thinking they should be on some different plane making money hand over fist is just not how this sort of thing works, especially when disrupting a whole industry it takes time and money to be effective.

That money needed to be spent, it was there to be spent or burned that was what PBC was supposed to do. They could easily fail and everybody that knew a lick about business said the same thing, but nothing has really changed if they fail in year two their plan was always faulty because their plan was always a long term one to success.

The article pointed out that success over long term had evidence in the valuations during the start up years. A successful business would be in the red, but it's value would be positive. This isn't the case for PBC where the value is going the wrong way. If PBC was spending all the money, but the value was going up, than that would be par for the course for the long term strategy and there wouldn't be lawsuits and under average ratings.

[The Big Dunn]

lol! Yeah I agree.

The only thing is like any other sport, boxing needs its casuals in order to be really profitable or mainstream. Even the NFL, MLB, & NBA does suddle things to attract women and kids. Hell the UFC has done well also, one of the main reasons for the UFC success is they have the eye of women and kids.

thats fair. used to have Olympics and TV for that.

[buddyguns]

man sit your ass down wth that passive agressive **** man i see right through you and the rest of you hating asses.

just mad that a black man is the most powerful in boxing.

So mad that I have tickets in hand for his only scheduled event coming up next week. I obviously bought tickets to see a black man fail. Or in reality, I bought tickets to support the sport that I love. Once again, I only care about seeing great fights, as any boxing fan should.

Secondly, uses big words and phrases is cute. But it's only effective when you use them in their proper context.

pas·sive-ag·gres·sive
adjective
of or denoting a type of behavior or personality characterized by indirect resistance to the demands of others and an avoidance of direct confrontation, as in procrastinating, pouting, or misplacing important materials.

[The Gambler1981]

you cant compare a PBC investment to a traditional business investment. Sure, most businesses lose money initially, because they are investing in hard assets, real estate, and maybe a small portion for operating capital. EVERYTHING that PBC has spent has pretty much been on operating capital. Money paid to Thurman, Garcia, etc will be meaningless in 10 years because they likely will be retired, or perhaps have a few losses, or may have lost fan appeal, or whatever. "Boxing" as an entity will likely NEVER sell to the casuals on a wide scale, because the casuals are too wrapped up in individual fighters to appreciate the overall sport. I believe the generic "boxing" market reaches its ceiling on platforms like Friday Night Fights, and Boxeo Telemundo. Even series like The Contender ultimately were failures.

I am actually comparing it to sports business investments, but regular businesses work the same way. I don't see why it is different really, it takes time for a brand to gain traction.

No one in the world said lets slap boxing in TV and we will print money. The conversation would have been like we will spend money to take over the sport of boxing and in the long run we will make money. Boxing is obviously a risky and unpredictable business but all the same fundamentals apply so what PBC has done can work and they can still make it work. They just need the time and money, that amount they got off the rip was never enough to get the job done it seems like a lot but it is really just a drop in the bucket of overall investment they need to really do what they were trying.


The contender I would call a success they had like 4 seasons, with Sergio Mora still getting mainstream fights. Alfonso Gomez, K-9, Bika, Vera all moved their careers forward. The ocntender was not something that was going to last that long so what they did they would call a success. One thing PBC could do is make a show like that using their prospects and second.third tier guys, probably a cost effective way to provide programming and get guys stories out there.