Why So Much Praise For The "If Only" Fighters: (Toney, Judah, Khan, etc.)

[-PBP-]

A lack of discipline means less focus in the gym, less attention to your defecits as a fighter. It absolutely indirectly affects your performance in the ring, and I am one of those who firmly believe Toney, like Oscar, caused his own early downfall and losses due to a lack of discipline, and that with his gift and skillset he could certainly go down as one of the greatest of all time.

Don't confuse a lack of discipline in the ring (dropping hands at dangerous times, lazy footwork, porous defense) with a lack of discipline to your craft.

But this is where I'm getting at. If he dedicated himself and stayed in shape. How would the Roy Jones or Montell Griffin fights, for example, have played out differently.

Some argue he beat Ice Griffin but the fights were too close to call them robberies. But he had 24 rounds to figure this guy out and wasn't able to do so.

[Eff Pandas]

Whats wrong with praising the flawed guys? I mean I'll get into praising guys like Oba Carr, Joseph Kiwanuka & Emanuel Augustus let alone the guys mentioned by TS. Lotsa guys have some noteworthy things about them that are worth talking about & being a fan of. Whatcha trying to be a boxing snob?

[Pac=Duran]

If only James Toney was more disciplined, he would be one of the greatest fighters of all time.

If Only Zab Judah wasn't a mental midget, he would have been an all time great fighter.

If only Amir Khan can avoid the big punch for 12 rounds, he would have won.


These types of sayings happen so much that people actually start to believe the bull****. Why is at that these fighters losses get written off as "mental lapses" rather than flaws in their game? Do people actually watch the fights or do they just repeat what they hear on an Ellie Sechback video?

When you look at James Toney's fights, he excelled against fighters that came to him. His performances against Iran Barkley, Evander Holyfield, John Ruiz, Samuel Peter (yes he was robbed), Vassily Jirov were magical. But when he fought guys that showed a little movement, had an effective jab and made him lead, he wasn't so great. It took him 24 rounds and he still couldn't figure out Montell Griffin and often struggled with below average opposition.

Zab Judah had a combination of power, handspeed and timing that made even the most knowledgeable boxing heads drink the Kool-aid at times. But he lost every big fight he was in. He looked the part at times and was the last undisputed welterweight champion which is a great accomplishment. But he wasn't a very smart fighter and it showed every time he stepped up in class.

And Amir Khan is the funniest of the bunch. People fall in love with his handspeed but ignore how he backs up in straight lines and is as good as useless on the inside. But when he loses, it's always "if only his chin held up". There's not many fighters that would remain standing after a lot of those shots that KO'd Amir Khan.

I'm not questioning the talent of these fighters. They are all world class fighters, became unified champions and had tremendous accomplishments. Respect to all of them.

But can we stop pretending that their losses weren't due to anything other than being flawed fighters? And accept them for what they are.

YOu missed out Toney's best win why? The win over Michael Nunn is one of the best quality wins in the past 30 years. Better win than any on Floyd's resume. Better than any on many many great fighters.

Toney's a legend.

[bojangles1987]

It's so infuriating. People convince themselves that these fighters have supreme skill and they only lose for other reasons. Um, no. Toney struggled with the exact same kinds of fighters all the time because he is one dimensional and could never adjust, not because of "dedication." Khan is not supremely skilled and only losing because of his chin, he has huge gaps in his game. Judah's skill has always been ridiculously overrated.

It's so annoying to hear people talk about all the skill these fighters have that for some reason never shows up against their best opponents. People were actually saying Toney can box backwards and move well earlier. Have they actually watched Toney to say **** like that?

[bojangles1987]

Toney was a multi-time, multi-weight world champ. Dunno why you think he is an if only kinda guy. Same goes for Judah.

Khan is probably a more pertinent choice but then again, he is unified champ with one of the best current resumes under 30.

There are very few fighters who get overrated because "if only" like James Toney. "If only he was dedicated, he would have beat Roy, he would knock out Golovkin in 5 rounds, he would be better than Mayweather, etc. If only he was dedicated, he'd be a top 10 great."

Dedication is not why Roy made Toney look like an amateur every second of 12 rounds.

[bojangles1987]

Broner is a better example for me.

Reminds me a lot of Toney.

Obviously a worse version of Toney.

People still talk about Broner like "if he got his head together and stayed focused, he would be a force."

NO HE WOULDN't. His flaws are massive and very obvious at this point.

[IronDanHamza]

But this is where I'm getting at. If he dedicated himself and stayed in shape. How would the Roy Jones or Montell Griffin fights, for example, have played out differently.

Some argue he beat Ice Griffin but the fights were too close to call them robberies. But he had 24 rounds to figure this guy out and wasn't able to do so.

Don't forget Reggie Johnson.

Reggie made him look so foolish. Like a novice.

[Elroy The Great]

biggest ''if onlys'' are iron mike, pryor and salvador sanchez.

[IronDanHamza]

It's so infuriating. People convince themselves that these fighters have supreme skill and they only lose for other reasons. Um, no. Toney struggled with the exact same kinds of fighters all the time because he is one dimensional and could never adjust, not because of "dedication." Khan is not supremely skilled and only losing because of his chin, he has huge gaps in his game. Judah's skill has always been ridiculously overrated.

It's so annoying to hear people talk about all the skill these fighters have that for some reason never shows up against their best opponents. People were actually saying Toney can box backwards and move well earlier. Have they actually watched Toney to say **** like that?

James Toney, supreme footwork. To say otherwise is absurd.

James Toney will always be that guy, "the guy that could have been the GOAT" the numerous evidence to say otherwise will always be ignored.

People say that if Toney was in shape he'd have had a chance with Jones. Well, did the fact he was in shape mean he suddenly can't defend punches? Did the fact he was in shape make him display novice like footwork? Make the same mistakes over and over and over? The amount of times Toney attempted a Hail Mary overhand right, missed by miles and crossed his feet over was ridiculous. Lucky he's got a great chin because he should have stopped the amount of times he was completely out of position and Roy cracks him with 3-4 punches in a row.

[-PBP-]

Whats wrong with praising the flawed guys? I mean I'll get into praising guys like Oba Carr, Joseph Kiwanuka & Emanuel Augustus let alone the guys mentioned by TS. Lotsa guys have some noteworthy things about them that are worth talking about & being a fan of. Whatcha trying to be a boxing snob?

Nothing at all. I gave all 3 of these guys their props. They achieved more in boxing and made more money than most will earn in a lifetime.

I'm arguing against those that say these guys would've been ATGs if only they were (insert blank).