I have a question, and I need some opinions

[saintpat]

Do you see No. 1, where you say that Szoke tells us what went on in the dressing room?

Do you see No. 2, where you tell us that (a) Szoke was not in the dressing room, (b) not at the fight, (c) actually in another state and (d) his friends were also not in the dressing room?

Now please explain to me how the f*** he can know what went on in the dressing room where neither he nor his friend were? That's as absurd as me telling you what happened in Ford Theater on the night of the Lincoln assassination.

So you, perhaps, can see where I question a lot of what he says if he's telling you what happened at a place and time where neither he nor his friends were.

As for No. 3, the very court summary of testimony which you linked has a section on a writer who was writing a story on Gamache, who had been with him in training camp and who was in the locker room. He testified under oath that Gamache was in good spirits and confident on the night of the fight and that he was going to knock Gatti out.

Szoke says his information from what was going on in the dressing room is from Jack Hirsch of Peakness Boxing News, and Thomas Hauser whom wrote a book about Muhammad Ali.

Forget everything you have read, and just read the next post.

Read your own link to the summary of testimony.

Jack Hirsch testified under oath that Gamache was in good spirits in the locker room and saying he was going to knock Gatti out.

Now you say Szoke's source that Gamache's locker room was like a funeral or a man waiting execution was ... Jack Hirsch.

That, in a nutshell, is why I don't trust anything Mr. Black Helicopter (Szoke) claims. I think we're talking about a very obsessed and delusional guy.

Just out of curiosity, what is the significance in your mind, of:

1) That Szoke was told Gatti worked out at a resort where Szoke played golf, and that he had never seen him there? Does he thnk he worked out on the golf course? Does he realize that fighters who train in such resorts usually only do so a few times leading up to the fight to generate interest/publicity, and that they train in a boxing gym most of the time?

Is it a big deal if a manager tells someone that a guy works out at one place when he really works out somewhere else? Is that a conspiracy ... or, more likely, is it that the manager gets a vibe that this guy is a few bricks short of a load and doesn't want him around the camp, so he misdirects him?

What does any of that have to do with the weigh-in, rehydrating, or anything else in the world?

2) What is the significance of the idea that Gamache's team misunderstood where the HBO people were at? Or that maybe the HBO people intended to be at once place, found it inadequate for one reason or another and set up shop across the street at the hotel?

Again, what does that have to do with the weigh-in or rehydration.

Oh, and one more thing ...

3) What's your relationship with Szoke? Are you, by chance, him?

[boxingnut712]

Depends..is that 4Lbs of iv hydrating? Eat some red meat & rice should be able to get at least 8Lbs. I also think you can rehydrate close to your natural weight whatever it may be & if that's all they can hydrate (19 losing & gaining only about 5) then that athlete should not playing with the their weight.

J.Razor, That is in fact what I am looking at, and I am at the point where I am kind of trying to come back with things in order here because I had complaints about the story jumping around. Gamache himself said he struggled to make weight. Said himself the last pound, or two was absolutely killer. I am thinking to myself how in thee hell anyone struggles to make it down to 140 1/4 pounds, then only rehydrates themself 4 3/4 pounds. If you are struggling to get down to the contract weight limit, then certainly you are going to put on more then what Joey Gamache did. I am on board with this Szoke fellow to the point that he says " Everyone saw what happened at the scales. Everyone saw the size difference the next night. Everyone saw a much larger Arturo Gatti, and wanted to blame him for everything without even bothering to look at Joey Gamache, and if there was another reason why he looked so small, and those scales never balanced. ". In short right now we agree that Gamache should have added more weight then 4 3/4 pounds struggling to come down to 140 1/4 from 158. However, there is more to the story.

[boxingnut712]

Read your own link to the summary of testimony.

Jack Hirsch testified under oath that Gamache was in good spirits in the locker room and saying he was going to knock Gatti out.

Now you say Szoke's source that Gamache's locker room was like a funeral or a man waiting execution was ... Jack Hirsch.

That, in a nutshell, is why I don't trust anything Mr. Black Helicopter (Szoke) claims. I think we're talking about a very obsessed and delusional guy.

Just out of curiosity, what is the significance in your mind, of:

1) That Szoke was told Gatti worked out at a resort where Szoke played golf, and that he had never seen him there? Does he thnk he worked out on the golf course? Does he realize that fighters who train in such resorts usually only do so a few times leading up to the fight to generate interest/publicity, and that they train in a boxing gym most of the time?

Is it a big deal if a manager tells someone that a guy works out at one place when he really works out somewhere else? Is that a conspiracy ... or, more likely, is it that the manager gets a vibe that this guy is a few bricks short of a load and doesn't want him around the camp, so he misdirects him?

What does any of that have to do with the weigh-in, rehydrating, or anything else in the world?

Szoke said he was well aware that the Fernwood had an athletic compound separate from the resort. He said without an invite he would never go. Szoke believes he would have heard something about him being there in on of the fight scribes, or local media. Szoke says he never for one minute thought he was there. It is a detail in his story to which now I have to ask him more about. I also now have to tap down another detail in Gamache's locker room. However, this is being helpful to a certain degree. I'll save the rest for below.

2) What is the significance of the idea that Gamache's team misunderstood where the HBO people were at? Or that maybe the HBO people intended to be at once place, found it inadequate for one reason or another and set up shop across the street at the hotel?

Again, what does that have to do with the weigh-in or rehydration.

Oh, and one more thing ...

Another detail that I will now have to look into.

3) What's your relationship with Szoke? Are you, by chance, him?

Obsessed? Obsessed with what? Can you be more specific? To me this guy seems utterly disappointed. Disappointed in that he was looking for some kind of BS Justice like Gamache was some sort of hardened criminal or something, and that the media got this grossly wrong, but he could have been obsessed with boxing because he seems to know a fair amount of detail about boxing. I would not say he is a few bricks short. More like a freaking nerdo. The problem that I have here is that this Szoke lad, and his pals noticed these things, but nobody else did. I can tell you that I am not this lad because I do not think that you could pay him to watch boxing anymore let alone come here. Maybe that is a bit of a stretch mate. Maybe you could pay him. Rest assured, I am not him, and we are not friends. He is probably tuned into election results right now that would be my guess. I am listening to what he has to say, and granted some of it does sound out there. Sometimes people die mate. Happens all the time, but I am not at that point yet, and I doubt that I ever get there. Do you have something against these guys Harper, Rosario, Tallon, and Szoke that you keep asking all these questions. Do you think think the thought has not crossed my mind that these guys were nothing more then fans that could not accept truth for what was in front of there face, and did not have both ores in the water. It has, and if anything were to ever materialized between me, and him on film, then I am going to need a lot more then what I have to look at. Arturo Gatti's own flesh, and blood brother told CBS he thought that his brother killed himself. I am going to have to have something a lot more convincing to go on. I think the question is why do you care so much about all these details being in order, and why are you asking these kinds of questions in the first place. Maybe you should ask the New York State Athletic Commission about these lads, maybe you should ask them about Hugo Pinta, there attorney general's office, and why they never contacted them, then perhaps we can get to how 3 people that have ample sleep are rendered unconscious while driving. Maybe instead of badgering me about this Szoke fella, and his friends you can just contact him yourself. Like I said. He is not a hard man to find. I do see your point of view in the sense that what exactly was he going to get out of all this. If I were in his shoes coming forth with all this information, and trying to disprove Gamache seems like it is nothing more then a hassle. I must reckon it could have been a multi thousand dollar legal hassle. Rest assured the details that I have are probably going to end around 2004.

[boxingnut712]

Read your own link to the summary of testimony.

Jack Hirsch testified under oath that Gamache was in good spirits in the locker room and saying he was going to knock Gatti out.

Now you say Szoke's source that Gamache's locker room was like a funeral or a man waiting execution was ... Jack Hirsch.

That, in a nutshell, is why I don't trust anything Mr. Black Helicopter (Szoke) claims. I think we're talking about a very obsessed and delusional guy.

Just out of curiosity, what is the significance in your mind, of:

1) That Szoke was told Gatti worked out at a resort where Szoke played golf, and that he had never seen him there? Does he thnk he worked out on the golf course? Does he realize that fighters who train in such resorts usually only do so a few times leading up to the fight to generate interest/publicity, and that they train in a boxing gym most of the time?
Is it a big deal if a manager tells someone that a guy works out at one place when he really works out somewhere else? Is that a conspiracy ... or, more likely, is it that the manager gets a vibe that this guy is a few bricks short of a load and doesn't want him around the camp, so he misdirects him?
What does any of that have to do with the weigh-in, rehydrating, or anything else in the world?

SZOKE SAYS: " WHEN I WROTE TO THESE PEOPLE, I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THAT THEY SAW MY LETTER, LOOKED AT MY NAME, AND THOUGHT THAT I WAS AFFILIATED WITH GAMACHE. THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION IS SIGNIFICANT IN THE SENSE THAT IF I MEET WITH THEM I WOULD HAVE HANDED THEM A VIDEO TAPE RIGHT THERE, SAID MY PEACE, AND BEEN ON MY WAY. WE WOULD NOT EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT THIS NOW. THEY COULD HAVE TAKEN A COPY OF THIS TAPE, AND RESOLVED THERE COMPLAINT WITH THE NEW YORK STATE ATHLETIC COMMISSION, OR CAME BACK AT THEM WITH ONE OF THEIR OWN. NONE OF THAT EVER HAPPENED. THE GENERAL THOUGHT WAS AM I ABOUT TO TURN OVER A LEAF HERE THAT I DON'T WANT TO. WHY WOULD SOMEONE DO THAT? WHY WOULD ANYONE TELL SOMEONE SOMETHING THAT IS TOTALLY FALSE? IF THEY HAD QUESTIONS THEY COULD HAVE ASKED. WHOM EVER I SPOKE WITH ON THE PHONE, I AM NOT EVEN SURE THAT IS WAS GATTI'S MANAGER, OR SOMEONE ELSE. I WAS SO CERTAIN THEY THOUGHT MY INTENTIONS WERE SOMETHING ELSE THAT I WENT AS FAR AS TO SEND THEM A RETURN LETTER OF WHERE I GOT THE PICTURES, ADDRESS, AND I EVEN THANKED THEM FOR IT. "

AS FOR GAMACHE'S MOOD IN THE LOCKER ROOM, I WILL TRY TO FIND IT. MOST PLACES DO NOT HAVE THE BANDWIDTH TO MAINTAIN ARCHIEVES FROM 2000, BUT AGAIN I WILL TRY BECAUSE I AM THE BAD GUY, AND MISQUOTED THE WRONG NAME."

2) What is the significance of the idea that Gamache's team misunderstood where the HBO people were at? Or that maybe the HBO people intended to be at once place, found it inadequate for one reason or another and set up shop across the street at the hotel?

Again, what does that have to do with the weigh-in or rehydration.

Oh, and one more thing ...

" GEEZ I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF TEAM JOE COMING TO THE GARDEN EARLY, AND CHECKING THEIR WEIGHT MULTIPLE TIMES ON A SCALE THAT HAS BEEN CALIBRATED AT LEAST TWICE WHILE BOB DUFFY WHO WAS SO LATE THAT HE WAS ALREADY THERE. MAYBE TO MAKE SURE THE SCALE DOES NOT REGISTER THEM AS A LIGHTWEIGHT. " TONY RUSSO, AND THESE PEOPLE WERE FRIENDS. THE SCANDAL THAT INSUED WAS NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH WEIGHT GATTI PUT ON AFTER THE FACT, OR EVEN THE FACT THAT THE SCALE NEVER BALANCED. THE SCALE NEVER WAS SUPPOSE TO BALANCE. IT WAS ABOUT MONEY PLAIN, AND SIMPLE. GAMACHE PROMISED 500 GRAND TO HIS EX WIFE, WAS PROMISING MONEY TO HIS MANAGER. WHO KNOWS WHO ELSE WAS GOING TO SEE KICKBACKS FROM THIS THING, AND THAT IS THE ISSUE. THEY FIRED TONY RUSSO, AND BLACKLISTED JOE'S NO GOOD PIECE OF $*** MANAGER. MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE ALREADY KNEW FOR ALL I KNOW. IF SOMEONE IS STRUGGLING TO MAKE THE WEIGHT THEY ARE GOING TO PUT MORE WEIGHT ON THEN WHAT THIS JOKER DID. THE NEXT MONTH WHEN GATTI SHOWS UP TO CHECK HIS WEIGHT EARLY THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED. THIS MOTHER ****** WAS A LIGHTWEIGHT WHEN THAT SCALE SAID HE WAS 140 1/4, AND NO ONE WILL CHANGE MY MIND. IF GATTI HIMSELF CAME BACK FROM HIS GRAVE TO TELL ME HE DIDN'T MAKE WEIGHT, I WOULD MERELY LAUGH, AND SAY YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU WEIGHED AT THE GARDEN. "



3) What's your relationship with Szoke? Are you, by chance, him?

" JUST WHO ARE YOU TALKING TO, AND WHY ARE THEY TAKING CHEAP SHOTS AT ME. THERE WERE 7 BADGES IN MY FAMILY. 2 OF THEM ARE BURIED. THERE ARE 5 FORMER UNITED STATES MILITARY SERVICEMEN. 1 RETIRED US SECRET SERVICE AGENT. I DO NOT HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD. MAYBE THAT WAS THE PROBLEM. I MIGHT NOT BE SNOW WHITE, BUT I AM NOT SAM GIANCANA EITHER. WHY WOULD ANYONE CARRY ON 15 YEARS ABOUT SOMETHING IF THEY THOUGHT SOMETHING WAS NOT WRONG? GATTI IS DEAD FOR 6 YEARS. GATTI'S ASSOCIATES HAVE GOT HALF OF BRAZIL KILLING HIM OVER 40 THOUSAND DOLLARS, AND A ROLEX WATCH. THE VERY SAME ASSOCIATES THAT WILL SAY I KNEW ARTURO GATTI. HE WOULD NEVER KILL HIMSELF IN ONE SENTENCE, THEN DOWN PLAY SUICIDE ATTEMPTS, DEPRESSION, ALCOHOLISM, AND DRUG USE IN THE NEXT. I THINK THAT IT WAS A NICE THING THAT GATTI'S MANAGEMENT HIRED AN INVESTIGATOR, BUT THEY WILL NEVER FIND OUT THE INFORMATION THEY ARE LOOKING FOR. I HAVE 21 YEARS EXPERIENCE OF SEEING IT GET NO WHERE BEFORE.

THE LIGHTWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD PULLED A FAST ONE, AND EVERYONE BOUGHT IT. I DON'T NEED ANYONE'S PERMISSION TO SPEAK MY MIND, STATE MY OPINION, PROVIDE FACTS, OR DETAILS. YOU HAVE BADGERED ME WITH COMPLAINTS, AND NONSENSE. INSTEAD OF ANSWERING SIMPLY YES, OR NO TO THE QUESTION, AND I DO NOT NEED YOU TO TELL ME BECAUSE I ALREADY KNOW. I AM ENTITLED TO TELL MY STORY WHETHER OR NOT ANYBODY LIKES IT. WHAT WORKING RELATIONSHIP THAT I HAVE WITH ANOTHER PARTY IS NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS, AND I AM NOT GOING TO LOSE MUCH SLEEP TONIGHT WONDERING WHAT ANYONE THINKS ABOUT IT.

THERE ARE NOW 5 BADGES IN THE FAMILY. HOWEVER, THOSE BADGES ARE NOT IN NEW YORK CITY, AND UNLIKE MURDER, THE STATUE OF LIMITATIONS ON ANYTHING CRIMINAL IN THE MATTER EXPIRED 5 YEARS AT THE POINT OF THE LAST ACT IN MARCH OF THIS YEAR. STILL NO ONE WANTS TO SAY ANYTHING WHICH IS NICE, NEVERTHELESS, IF YOU HAVE SOMEHING TO SAY, THEN SAY IT. IT IS A FREE COUNTRY. PLEASE COME, AND TELL ME HOW WRONG I AM AGAIN, AND I WILL TRACK DOWN 20 FACTS THAT SAYS NO YOUR WRONG.

THE PEOPLE IN NEW JERSEY ARE PROBABLY A LOT LIKE THE PEOPLE IN MAINE. NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF SISSY'S.

YEAH I AM SEEING BLACK HELICOPTER, BUT I AM NOT THE ONE THAT NEEDED ADVANCE EXPENSES FOR ANYTHING IN LIFE BACK IN 1999. WALLY MATTHEWS OF THE DAILY NEWS SAID THAT HE TALKED WITH RUSSO AFTER HE LEFT THE COMMISSION LATER IN 2000. RUSSO SAID THAT HE JUST WANTED TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE BECAUSE OF THE VERDICT HANDED DOWN IN THE AMADOU DIALLO TRIAL, AND THAT HE FEARED RIOTS BECAUSE THE NORMAL GARDEN SECURITY WAS NOT THERE THAT AFTERNOON. AGAIN I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TONY RUSSO IS TALKING ABOUT. THE GARDEN WAS FULL OF NEW YORK CITY COPS. IF ANYONE STARTED A RIOT DOWN AT THE GARDEN THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SUBDUED QUICKLY.


IF ANYONE IS SEEING BLACK HELICOPTERS IT IS GATTI'S MANIPULATIVE, AND OVERPROTECTIVE FORMER MANAGEMENT WHOM SEEMS TO THINK THAT THEY DON'T EVER DO ANYTHING WRONG. I AM NOT GOING TO GET FORTUNE, AND FAME OUT OF TELLING THIS STORY. IF I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING IN BOXING, THEN LARRY HOLMES DOES NOT LIVE TO FAR AWAY. CERTAINLY LARRY WOULD KNOW THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO GET ME TO. I AM GOING TO MAKE A DOCUMENTARY WITH THESE PEOPLE DEPENDING ON WHAT I HEAR OUT OF READING. THAT IS OUR RELATIONSHIP. THEN WITH ALL HOPES DUMB DUM WILL CREATE ANOTHER ACT IN IN THE PROCESS, AND COME AFTER ME WHICH IS WHEN I AM GOING TO BURY HIM, SO GET YOUR BULLET PROOF VEST READY. IN THE MEANTIME MAYBE YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO."

" ONE MORE THING. I HAVE A FOOTBALL WEEKEND PLANNED IN MY HOMETOWN, AND IN THE LEHIGH VALLEY WITH ANDRE REED, SO PLEASE DON'T EXPECT ANYMORE ANSWERS UNTIL TUESDAY AT LEAST "

[boxingnut712]

Read your own link to the summary of testimony.

Jack Hirsch testified under oath that Gamache was in good spirits in the locker room and saying he was going to knock Gatti out.

Now you say Szoke's source that Gamache's locker room was like a funeral or a man waiting execution was ... Jack Hirsch.

That, in a nutshell, is why I don't trust anything Mr. Black Helicopter (Szoke) claims. I think we're talking about a very obsessed and delusional guy.

Just out of curiosity, what is the significance in your mind, of:

1) That Szoke was told Gatti worked out at a resort where Szoke played golf, and that he had never seen him there? Does he thnk he worked out on the golf course? Does he realize that fighters who train in such resorts usually only do so a few times leading up to the fight to generate interest/publicity, and that they train in a boxing gym most of the time?

Is it a big deal if a manager tells someone that a guy works out at one place when he really works out somewhere else? Is that a conspiracy ... or, more likely, is it that the manager gets a vibe that this guy is a few bricks short of a load and doesn't want him around the camp, so he misdirects him?

What does any of that have to do with the weigh-in, rehydrating, or anything else in the world?

2) What is the significance of the idea that Gamache's team misunderstood where the HBO people were at? Or that maybe the HBO people intended to be at once place, found it inadequate for one reason or another and set up shop across the street at the hotel?

Again, what does that have to do with the weigh-in or rehydration.

Oh, and one more thing ...

3) What's your relationship with Szoke? Are you, by chance, him?

Szoke says: I believe this may have been the article, but something about it is different:



It never mentions anything about Gamache's mood in the dressing room.

Szoke said: it is odd. As odd as this interview with Johnny Bos that cuts out shortly after they start talking about Gatti. It is like somebody does not want something to come out:



During the ring walk of the fight, Jim Lampley says that Gamache's people advised him not to take this fight. In the interview above Bos is saying how he knew Gatti could not beat a good boxer like Ivan Robinson, and that he thought that they would win the fight. Well now which is it? you can not have an opinion that goes both ways.

Whether people agree with me, or not is not the issue. I don't care if people think Gatti did not make weight, or they agree that Gamache was a lightweight, but since the statue of limitations has expired on anything criminal related to the weigh in, and the lawsuit was dismissed without any damages being awarded what exactly have these people done to make things better in boxing. They got the weigh in changed back to the day of the fight for one fight card, and in doing so they sent Paul Ingle home with brain damage. They contributed to getting the weigh ins changed to digital scales. Those digital scales are easier to mess with then the ones they were using in 2000. Here in Pennsylvania, we mandated that fighters could gain no more then 10 pounds of hydration meaning that the Commission is conducting two weigh ins. One the day before the fight, and a second weigh in the next day when the fighters come into the building. Mr. Lewiston did next to nothing besides nearly get Paul Ingle killed, and want MONEY because that is what the issue was Money. I question whether, or not Gamache even has the medical damages he claims to have had occur as a result of this fight, and weigh in. Where were his doctors at the trial?

I always admired a true warrior like Arturo Gatti whom put on some of the most exciting fights of the late 90's, and early 2000's, but HELLO if somebody makes weight at the Manhatten Athletic Club, then how on earth could they be that far off for the real thing at Madison Square Garden.

Pardon my French, but something is very f**king wrong here. Team Gatti can call me OCD all they want because at the end of the day I am going to call them a bunch of slackers that mess things up.

[boxingnut712]

We wanted to again express thanks for to those who proved some imput on this. The fore mention documentary will be released in August on youtube.com, and it is an all out assault on the New York State Athletic Commission from 1960 to the present covering many of different issues such as the 1960's hearings to ban boxing there, Luis Resto & Billy Collins Jr., Arturo Gatti & Joey Gamache, Derrell Coley & Oscar De La Hoya, Paul Ingle & Junior Jones, Beethaven Scotland & George Kalid Jones, Erik Morales & Danny Garcia, and about 6 other fights ranging from 2009 - 2015 where brain damage actually occurred in New York.