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    #31
    Originally posted by Jc8804 View Post
    Why is this cover up so important for all these people to be murdered OP ?

    I think the problem here is that I keep getting asked question from events that happened further down the road when I am still examining, and trying to verify information about this weigh in, fight, and the rehydration process to get to the next step.

    To answer the last question, I am being told that would be to protect the political benefactors whom appointed a boxing commission to funnel money for there future political aspirations when none of those people appointed had much of a boxing clue in the first place. I am told that there were commissioners were just ghost names of people that did not even exist for the purpose of funds being sent back to the New York GOP at the time.

    Szoke claims that Tony Russo personally had Floyd Patterson kicked off the head of the commission on gounds of mental impairment because he could not remember all his fight details when he fought, and Russo replaced Patterson with a play ball guy Mel Southard. Most of these guys aboard the New York State Athletic Commission Mel Southard, Marc Cornstein, Jerry Becker, Jim Polsinello, Tony Russo, Lawrence Mandelker, Chris DeFruscio and Ruby Marin worked other jobs, and they were they basically there just to funnel money. Szoke said that he waited until 2005 after all these guys were fired, quit, or their terms expired to send anything to the commission, and elsewhere in the state of New York. Szoke further says that he was not thinking about anyone coming back at the commission with a counter suit when he did so.

    Here is a piece from Commission Director of Operations Bob Duffy on the Evander Holyfield - Lennox Lewis fight. Bob Duffy Immediately quit Monday morning after the fight between Gamache, and Gatti on February 26, 2000. "I chose two inspectors for each corner. Bill O'Malley and George Ward were supposed to work one corner, and Mike Fayo and Harold Townes were supposed to be in the other. Then Polsinello came to me and said, 'I'm assigning the corners.' There was a lot of yelling, and he overruled me. So Chris DeFruscio and Mike Pascale worked Lewis's corner, and Marc Cornstein and Jerry Becker were assigned to Holyfield. This was Pascale's first fight in the corner. You don't start your career as an inspector in the corner at a fight for the heavyweight championship of the world. I complained to Becker, and Gerry told me, 'Hey, Duffy; you don't understand. We won the election.'"

    Szoke said at the point of the weigh in Bob Duffy steps up to weigh the fighters, and Tony Russo steps in, and says we got this one. In court Mel Southard testified that he, and Russo conducted the weigh in because Bob Duffy was late getting to the garden. Bob Duffy was not late getting there. Bob Duffy was the one who sent the scale out to be tweeked when Joey Gamache, and Johnny Bos complained about it before Gatti, and his people show up.

    Szoke believe that these people aboard the New York State Athletic Commision along with the man that appointed them George Pataki had the most to gain out of much of this never coming out. and would be the people responsible for him not sleeping to well at night. George Pataki is currently running for President of the United States though he is not doing well. Szoke said the tape from the afternoon at the weigh in was sent to the commissions legal department headed by a man named Hugo Pinta. By exposing illegal activity at the weigh in, Szoke said that it would have exposed these individuals using the commission to conduct illegal activities to fund the New York State GOP, and among other things. Szoke, along with several books claim these poeple were in bed with the mafia.

    One of these such books was written by G.T. Harrell. It was called the Mafia's Secret Judge. Though this this book had other inconsistencies especially with the death of Jimmy Hoffa, and JFK.

    And then there is Gamache whom Szoke seems to not like at all. By exposing the scales fixed for Gamache, I am sure Gamache himself would have had to explain why he was in court if the scales were in fact fixed for him. So those are the people that had something to gain by this story never coming out. Szoke concluded that the commission, and Gamache would have been better off letting this die in court, and shortening the witness list then to be exposed which is what happened. Gamache never filed an appeal as far as I know. Szoke said that he wanted to write a letter to the presiding judge, but because he was nearly killed, and badly mangled that he had surgeries, and lost track of the trial due to physical therapy, and rehabilitation of his body though 2009, and early 2010. Szoke said that in July of 2009 when he first heard of Gatti's death that he was led to believe that the widow alone killed Gatti at first, and then he killed himself by some of the same media that would like you to believe that Gatti forcefully jumped on a scale, and hopped right back off, and started drinking water, and eating food while his weight was quickly called. Szoke says it did not happen like that at all at the weigh in.

    The New York State Inspector General's office concluded that what ever was going on at the weigh in, the weights recorded were official. Arturo Gatti was prone to putting on significant amounts of weight between the weigh in, and the fight. Anything HBO, or anybody else is doing is unofficial. Any injury's that occurred were not the result off the state. The judge presiding over the case said pretty much the same. The Judge said though Gatti was not properly weighed no one ever proved the injuries came as a result of the weigh in.

    Szoke himself said outside of Gatti having to testify in 72 hours there is not a whole lot to connecting Brazil to New York. Szoke said he tried to get information about Gamache's second, and current wife being from that area of South America where Gatti was killed, but he can not get any. Szoke also said he has been trying to contact Derrell Coley, and Leonard Langley, but Szoke has not been successful in reaching them to ask them about their weights going into the Oscar De La Hoya weigh in, and fight. Szoke said he heard news of four different weights on Derrell Coley 143 1/2, 145, 146, and 147. Derrell Coley has got to have some idea of what he weighed before he came down to the Garden for the weigh in, and the Southgate Hotel for HBO fighter meetings.

    If Gatti weighed 141 at the Athletic Club, then how can he be much more then that at the Garden. If Gamache says he weighed 140 1/4 at the physical how could he weigh much more at the Garden. Someone is lying, and then there is Oscar De La Hoya whom is said to not have made weight as well, and the fact that the calibrations on the scale were tweeked an hour before Gatti ever shows up to which no one can account for the scale for that hour. Szoke said that he could, but he along with his friends were never contacted, or called as witnesses. Szoke says no one from New York ever got back to him, nor did the FBI in Newark, NJ.


    Comment


      #32
      CONTINUED

      Szoke says he contacted Arturo Gatti's people, and even a sports memorablia agent about meeting with them. Szoke said the conversation turn from hope, and excitement to disappointment fast. Szoke claims he was told that Gatti trained at the Fernwood in Bushkill Pennsylvania, however, he believed Gatti trained in Florida after reading a 1999 NY Times article about him. Szoke further went on to say that he went golfing, and snow tubing at the Fernwood, and never seen them there. Szoke further stated that with out an official invite that he would have never gone there looking for them in the first place. Szoke says at that point before he ever contacted them he had already concluded Gatti would have put on that weight no matter what he weighed the day of the fight, and Joey Gamache would have been smashed into retirement all the same. Despite what they had on video at the time that conversation set him back 10 months in which he claims to have looked at dozens of other video tapes, the people working for the New York State Athletic Commission, and Joey Gamache. In January 2001 Szoke says he concluded that Gamache, Bos, and that commission were a bunch of frauds. Szoke went on to say that Joey Gamache's own family did not even like Johnny Bos. Szoke went on to say that if they had such a problem with the weigh in that he did not understand why they would not just back out of the fight, and file a breech of contract lawsuit monday morning.

      Forget the deaths of these individuals, between what is printed in the media, what is in the court depositions, and what Szoke is saying, I am having a hard time making any sense of this weigh in. There is nothing illegal about coming in underweight for fight, but if your doing so to file a lawsuit for money, and in turn in making you opponent look overweight, then that has got to be illegal to the high heavens which is where I am at, but before I get to the next step of looking at the rest of this, and these Commissioners, I have to verify this guys story, and get the facts about the weigh in, and these procedures which is what my original question was, so I think we are being petty here assuming that all these other details connect, and making me spend my entire late morning, and early afternoon interviewing this Szoke chap from Pennsylvania about everything else but the weigh in, and the fight. Who exactly am I going to talk to on the commission that is going to be honest about this, and is still alive for that matter. On the surface right now outside of mail documents, car service records, and telephone records which can't be disputed this is going to come down to everybody's word against everybody's word which is why I was hoping that some one here knew something about this weigh in.

      Tony Russo, and Johnny Bos are said to have had dealings over the career over Tracy Harris Patterson, and I do not know if that holds any significance. What I do know is why would somebody change the weigh in proceeding from the guy whom normally does them from Bob Duffy to Tony Russo if Duffy wasn't late, and something shady wasn't going on. Szoke says he is not even sure if Tony Russo ever conducted a weigh in in his entire life, and he never showed up for any non heavyweight events.

      Most details put forth here beyond April of 2000, I can't confirm. These people are dead. Whether, or not it connects to this fight I am going to attempt to find out depending upon any more feedback that I can get about the fight, and weigh in.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by saintpat View Post
        If you have newspaper reports on cause of death of all of these people (Gatti aside, as the myriad reports on that are easy to find), please scan and post them or link to them so we can see.

        There's too much scattershot claims and "information" posted by the OP not backed up by anything other that what he says someone else (presuming the OP is not Szoke) claims.

        But there are too many gaps and holes in this info and no cohesive theory to tie it all together for me to gather exactly what is being alleged here.

        Saying one had difficulty losing the last 5-6 pounds doesn't mean that the difficulty occured in the last day or so. If I had to lose 15 pounds in the next three weeks, for instance, knowing this from experience, the first 10 of that would probably come off in 10 days if I really limited my diet and upped my exercise. The next 5-6 would come much more slowly. But if I did this over time, I wouldn't expect to blow back up after losing 5-6 pounds in 2 weeks ... yet those 5-6 would be difficult and come off more slowly.

        I get the feeling the OP/Szoke are alleging that the tinkered scale was such that Gamache actually weighed in much lighter, like at 135, and really rehydrated 10-12 pounds instead of 4 or 5.

        That seems unlikely, as Gamache had been fighting as high as 157 and never lower than 147 in the 2 years (encompassing eight fights, a decent sample size) previous to the Gatti fight.

        The idea is that Gatti lost a lot of weight and rehydrated ... yet Gamache was coming down farther from his normal fighting weight than Gatti -- he was fighting in the 130s for some time leading into the bout and moving up in weight.

        Perhaps Gamache didn't know how to rehydrate -- if he's drinking water (yes, a gallon of water weighs a lot but it also exits the body when he takes a piss, so the weight would be lost soon after it was gained) and Gatti is taking IVs, rehydrating tissue rather than relying on the stomach to absorb and distribute the fluids ... well, that's why guys who cut weight use IVs to rehydrate, it's more immediate and efficient.

        I'm still also trying to figure the mob's angle on this. Yes, mobsters order hits and kill people (but by hanging?), but they have to have a reason to do so -- someone is going to testify and have them put in jail, someone is muscling in on their territory, someone is going to cost them a lot of money. So please, OP, explain their interest in killing an awful lot of people over this ... were they underwriting the NYSAC and going to have to pay off if Gamache won a big judgment in his lawsuit? No, they weren't. So what motivates the mob to kill a bunch of people over a lawsuit against a state agency?
        With the exception of Anthony ( Tony ) Russo who I have no information on the Newpaper clippings are mostly just obituary's, and it does not give any useful details. If someone suicides, and they are not that famous they do not put much of anything in the paper about it. Again it takes a court order to get medical records. The guy from Fire Company 10 was one of 343 fire fighters killed that is all over out there. There 2 brief articles on Szoke's crash. His car was smashed into many pieces, and they were not going to find much as a result. Look at the thing. The other two fight fans did not even get a mention in the Post, Daily News, or the other papers up there. Just an obituary.

        Comment


          #34
          Man this thread reads like if Alex Jones was a boxing fan. I'm completely lost with whats happening here, but I'm still being mildly entertained reading it every couple days.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Eff Pandas View Post
            Man this thread reads like if Alex Jones was a boxing fan. I'm completely lost with whats happening here, but I'm still being mildly entertained reading it every couple days.

            I am happy that your happy, but I am not happy. I am frustrated.

            Why Doesn't Gamache rehydrate better, and if he believed something is wrong why doesn't Gamache back out of the fight, and immediately file a breech of contract suit Monday morning.

            But I'll entertain you some more. This chick sure sounds South American to me.

            Comment


              #36
              From where do you have that Gamache came down from 160? It doesn't sound right to me. He was never that big. Hell I dont even think he weighs 160 today.

              Anyway the weighin was a travesty where Gatti cheated. I think there was some hearings about that incident.


              And to your question Yes it is possible to cut 20 lbs. Fighters do that all the time. And of course you can also just put on 3-4 lbs in 24 hours. It's about intake.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by BattlingNelson View Post
                From where do you have that Gamache came down from 160? It doesn't sound right to me. He was never that big. Hell I dont even think he weighs 160 today.

                Anyway the weighin was a travesty where Gatti cheated. I think there was some hearings about that incident.


                And to your question Yes it is possible to cut 20 lbs. Fighters do that all the time. And of course you can also just put on 3-4 lbs in 24 hours. It's about intake.
                That information comes from a court deposition, and testimony from the trial itself. It is actually 158 pounds to which he weighed in at 140 1/4 that is about 18 pounds. I just rounded the number up, and said around 160. Thanks for contributing to this. I am starting to sense that if he gradually dropped this weight over the course of his camp that Gamache might have been able to do it, but like team Matthysse stated did he rehydrate enough.

                What is the deal with Oscar not making weight first though?

                People keep saying that Gatti cheated, but the clip that I have of this weigh in shows Gatti did not get on, and off the scale real quick. He gets on. He sees the beam hit the balance, his mouth opens, and he looks stunned as he is looking at the scale. Then at the point the commission adjusts the counter balance from 140 to 141, and they tell him to raise his arms, and it as that point the clip cuts out. If is from the Lewis - Grant Pay Per View. Everyone has got to have that clip that seen the Pay Per View, and recorded it.


                Last edited by boxingnut712; 10-24-2015, 07:36 PM.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by boxingnut712 View Post
                  That information comes from a court deposition, and testimony from the trial itself. It is actually 158 pounds to which he weighed in at 140 1/4 that is about 18 pounds. I just rounded the number up, and said around 160. Thanks for contributing to this. I am starting to sense that if he gradually dropped this weight over the course of his camp that Gamache might have been able to do it, but like team Matthysse stated did he rehydrate enough.

                  What is the deal with Oscar not making weight first though?

                  People keep saying that Gatti cheated, but the clip that I have of this weigh in shows Gatti did not get on, and off the scale real quick. He gets on. He sees the beam hit the balance, his mouth opens, and he looks stunned as he is looking at the scale. Then at the point the commission adjusts the counter balance from 140 to 141, and they tell him to raise his arms, and it as that point the clip cuts out. If is from the Lewis - Grant Pay Per View. Everyone has got to have that clip that seen the Pay Per View, and recorded it.



                  I never said Gamache could not sweat down from 160. What I am driving at here was if Gamache was coming down from 160, or 158. He cuts 18 pounds, but only puts on 4 & 3/4 pounds of hydration according to an unofficial weight check before the fight. It is this 4 & 3/4 number that is more in question which is leading to more questions about the official weigh in itself. Who is to say that scale was ever even properly set up at the weigh in.

                  This is the New York State Athletic Commission.
                  Last edited by boxingnut712; 10-24-2015, 07:46 PM.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by BattlingNelson View Post
                    From where do you have that Gamache came down from 160? It doesn't sound right to me. He was never that big. Hell I dont even think he weighs 160 today.

                    Anyway the weighin was a travesty where Gatti cheated. I think there was some hearings about that incident.


                    And to your question Yes it is possible to cut 20 lbs. Fighters do that all the time. And of course you can also just put on 3-4 lbs in 24 hours. It's about intake.
                    Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone whom gave me some insight here on the weigh in, and rehydrating process.

                    Whatever happened to these guys Harper, Rosario, and Szoke seems strange, but it will most likely remain a mystery as to if any of it related to what they had sent to the New York State Athletic Commission, and this weigh in.

                    Whatever happened to Arturo Gatti in Brazil that is most likely going to remain a mystery as well, and whether it had anything to do with what happened in New York at the weigh in for the Joey Gamache fight.

                    Whatever happened to the Attorney, and A Curcuit Judge likely to remain a suicide.

                    While there are many curious things about this weigh in, in order to go forth with a documentary project I would need a little more proof to show that Gamache was a lightweight. To bad the New State Athletic Commission, and its legal department probably rid them self of that video tape these guys sent along time ago. Gamache himself was to have said to have a tape from some disgruntled worker at the commission office that Team Gatti gave the Commission advanced information that they were not making weight to which the commission supposedly said don't worry about it. I am still kind of curious as to why that never came up in the trial.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by boxingnut712 View Post
                      He cuts 18 pounds, but only puts on 4 & 3/4 pounds of hydration according to an unofficial weight check before the fight.
                      It really could come down to just this (and we'll almost certainly never know).

                      Was there testimony as to exactly when, where and how this "unofficial" weight was determined? Do we know who witnessed it to give that number (4 3/4) to HBO?

                      Because if this number is incorrect -- let's say he checked again on an uncalibrated bathroom scale at the hotel before heading over to the arena, or simply a scale that was off (these unofficial for-HBO prefight weights are not conducted in public and monitored by a commission) or even someone at HBO asked and he or someone in his camp said "145" or "about 145" then, bingo, a house of cards can be built on a foundation that isn't factually accurate.

                      Since he was 140 1/4 and his "unofficial" weight just happens to end in 3/4 so it comes out to a nice, even number makes me wonder if there is any reality to the number at all.

                      So was there testimony to this, any witness to this fight-night weigh-in, or does it all come down to something HBO "reported" on the telecast?

                      Comment

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