Mayweather is better than Marquez, but will do much worst against Pacquaio.

[Doctor_Tenma]

Morales didn't win that fight with his jab is about as ****** as anything else I've heard this week, go watch the fight again.

[IronDanHamza]

Morales didn't win that fight with his jab is about as ****** as anything else I've heard this week, go watch the fight again.

Yeah that's a very poor observation. The jab was key.

Marquez has used the jab well numerous times against Pacquaio aswell.

[DARKSEID]

You don't seem to get it, that's the biggest issue right now. Against Pacquiao, the way the jab is supposed to be utilized is to get him to over commit/ or blinding him to set up leads (Marquez, Morales). Morlaes' jab played a role as well and it contributed in getting him the victory, Marquez utilized it well and Bradley could have conceivably got the win so I beg to differ (Off-topic, don't want to go down that road). All of them utilized their jab in a way that it served it's purpose.


What your not suppose to do is leave the jab hanging out or looking to double up/ or triple up on it, that's what got Cotto in trouble and the fact that Cotto doesn't have a lead right hand to set it up with.

Mayweather will be effective with it because of his ranginess, quickness and reflexes, point blank. I'm not talking jab exhibition either but it'd definitely play a major role.

You make Pacquiao reach by positioning, footwork and lateral movement.

Pacquiao is the most dangerous counter puncher in the game. Floyd has to use his feet to keep Pacquiao off him safely, that's his only option. He's not going to risk staying in the pocket like Marquez when pacquiao goes on the attack. He's not comfortable fighting that type of fight against a fighter with speed and equally exceptional footwork and defense.

I only see Floyd using the jab as a deterrant and range finder for the right hand against pacquiao.

[Doctor_Tenma]

You make Pacquiao reach by positioning, footwork and lateral movement.

Pacquiao is the most dangerous counter puncher in the game. Floyd has to use his feet to keep Pacquiao off him safely, that's his only option. He's not going to risk staying in the pocket like Marquez. He's not comfortable fighting that type of fight against a fighter with speed and equally exceptional footwork and defense.

No one is oblivious to that, you also do the same by putting the jab in his face and forcing him to take the initiative like he normally does. It's been done countless times, even those that have been unsuccessful have done it to him. It's just a major difference when the one utilizing that tactic can actually counter well.

[DARKSEID]

Before the Algieri fight, I would have said Floyd beats Manny easily, but Pac can box. His footwork and defense are exceptional.

Floyd is not just going to land on Pac easily. Not the way he lands on the fighters hes fought in the last half decade.

[TRTboy]

Morales didn't win that fight with his jab is about as ****** as anything else I've heard this week, go watch the fight again.

Mayweather never really uses the jab except to the body. You think he's going to be confident jabbing a fast guy like pac? He got out jabbed by de la hoya, was even against cotto, didn't jab against a fast guy in judah, never jabbed guerrero, barely jabbed against maidana. So I don't get how you think he's all of a sudden going to jab and bait pacman just because other opponents have landed the punch LOL. Mayweather is more comfortable leading with the right because he is less likely to get countered, he likes to lead with that right and duck or lead with the right and push the opponent away. Again he doesn't like to take risks and I don't expect him take a lot against pac which means I don't see him jabbing a lot.

Years of watching pac fight getting jabbed has never been a weakness for him. He's too fast and quick to get jabbed from the outside.

[TRTboy]

Pac's feint will also cause a lot of problems for floyd who reacts very easily to attempted attacks. Mayweather has quick reflexes and his quick reactions has always been one of his biggest attribute but against pac it could work against him.

I can already see pac giving mayweather a lot of feints making mayweather jump a lot and move making him uncomfortable. Man I hope it happens if pac is a huge underdog I will bet some money for the first time.

[FightingWords]

May is at his best when presented with conventional or traditional boxing styles. Pac's unorthodox punching angles and fast hands would spell trouble for Floyd and he knows it.

[IronDanHamza]

Before the Algieri fight, I would have said Floyd beats Manny easily, but Pac can box. His footwork and defense are exceptional.

Floyd is not just going to land on Pac easily. Not the way he lands on the fighters hes fought in the last half decade.

What did the Algeri fight show you to make you change your mind?

That Pacquaio beat up a guy he should never have been in the ring with him in the first place?

[Daddy T]

Technical summary


Mayweather is obviously the superior fighter to Marquez. I don't think anyone should be debating that. What people do need to understand is that Mayweather is a fantastic counter puncher defensive fighter that people mistakenly link to Marquez's own counter punching style. They are totally different and one style have always caused Pacquiao trouble, the other will not.


They are completely different fighters who set up their counters completely differently.

First off, the key for Marquez against Pacquiao has always been his constant lateral movement. Not only does he constantly sway at a low center of gravity while rotating away from Pac's left, but he pivots out of range and changes the angle after landing an attack, or even in the middle of an exchange, to completely confuse Pacquiao and take away his ability to take the initiative with his amazingly swift footwork. He does this so much so that in the second half of the fight, he caught Pacquiao with a left hook pretty much behind the head because of how he was able to laterally shift away from an oncoming Manny.


Mayweather on the other hand is a more conventional "slick" counter-puncher who relies on his control of distance to anticipate and neutralize his opponent. While he's brilliant in reading his opponent and measuring his own punches against their own, he usually does this either going straight backwards or straight forwards, with efficient footwork. He has habituated himself to fighting in straight lines in order to land his favorite punches; lead right hands, pull-counters, jabs to the body, counter or lead left hooks, or counter-right uppercuts when swarmed. But one thing Mayweather almost never shows is the type of lateral movement Marquez shows.


De La Hoya, while still game, had an offensive gameplan that relied a lot on mere feints and swarms of activity to back Floyd up, and he usually did so with no problem. Even after Mayweather adjusted to his rhythm and started winning rounds, he hardly ever looked impressive and was backing up consistently without ever shifting towards a laterally-minded gameplan. Wouldn't that have made things easier for him instead of constantly giving up the center and having to retreat to the ropes to counter before escaping? Someone with the style of Hopkins (as in VS Pavlik), for example, would prefer such tactics, and Floyd seems to prefer seeing his opponent right in front of him, positioning himself right in front.



This comfort zone does not appear to be a preferred strategy for someone who can rotate so quickly and match Floyd speed for speed with plenty of pop behind it.(Manny)

This leads into my second point, which is that Marquez's movement allows him to get Pacquiao on the inside and punish him. As an in-the-pocket counter-puncher, Marquez can duck under and find himself body-to-body with pacquiao and take advantage of his unpolished inside game. Uppercuts, combinations, and even spots of controlled aggression (before pivoting out) are something that he can do because of his relatively similar size to Pacquiao.

Now, while people point to Mayweather's reach giving Pacquiao issues, I don't believe he'll be able to use it to control Pacquiao if he shows his regular movement. Floyd's accurate and reflexive, but his defensive stance by nature anchors his back foot to the canvas, and allows someone as fleet-footed as Pacquiao to change the punching angle and capitalize for an offensive opportunity.

Fighting in straight lines is not the way to beat Pacquiao; you have to take away the punching angle, and I don't think at all that Floyd can circle as well as he can back-pedal.

On top of all of this is tempo. While Marquez was able to control pace from time to time, he was still able to fluidly exchange with Pacquiao and see the angles in order to time the better shots while rolling with Pac's own. Mayweather, as skilled and tough and intuitive as he is, has not shown this quality in abundance. The times he's been hurt actually, have been times he's over-committed to his own punches (Corely, Judah, Mosley). He can adjust brilliantly round-to-round, but as controversial as it may sound, I feel he lacks this sort of intangible fluidity Marquez has in his approach.


Once again Floyd is the superior fighter to Marquez but he lack the particular attributes that Marquez have in the counter punching game that have so enabled Marquez to be Manny's biggest nightmare.

great analysis. Marquez is simply Manny's Norton.