Comments Thread For: Jessie Vargas 'No Coward,' Joins The Fight Against PEDs

[radioraheem]

USADA doesn't regularly use CIR testing. They use it when specifically targeting athletes (mainly outside of boxing) they suspect are doping. I saw that they said they used it for Mayweather-Cotto back then. No name is ever given for "USADA" who went on record with those quotes. The organziation as a whole apparently made those statements.

If USADA used CIR testing all the time, they'd have caught more than one fighter in the four years they've been involved with testing boxers in US fights. And the one fighter they caught was an aged veteran on his way out - akin to a police force firing a bad cop two weeks away from retirement to suggest that sweeping changes are being made.

Had they stuck it out with the June 2 card that year, they - and not just the California State Athletic Commisison - would have caught Antonio Tarver. On that same card, Peter Quillin and Winky Wright were supposed to undergo testing, yet it was abruptly canceled without explanation. Later in the year, both Adrien Broner and Antonio DeMarco agreed to randon testing. Neither fighter was tested or notified that testing procedures were canceled.

I'm not just winging it when I write this stuff. When Floyd first announced he was testing with USADA prior to the Mosley fight, I was all the way behind him (//krikya360.com/mayweathe...h-other--26141). When Pacquiao fought Cotto and Margarito, I questioned his history-making feats, in fact accused Pacquaio of cheating history (). I know fans feel the need to pick sides with Mayweather and Pacquiao, and that their names MUST be linked every time random drug testing is mentioned.

But the fact is, this story was not about Mayweather, Pacquiao, or how drug testing became popularized in the United States. It's about fighters willing to undergo year-round, unconditional testing. Jessie Vargas is. His next opponent, Anton Novikov - who failed a drug test less than two years ago - is not. That, and nothing else, was the motivation for this story.

Again, this is a case of you not thoroughly investigating the facts. And instead, being persuaded by the Victor Conte manual.

USADA regularly uses CIR. They have went on record stating this. Conte was the leading figure that accused USADA of not 'regularly' doing CIR and they blasted back saying this is false. You cannot find any source whatsoever, outside of Conte, making a legitimate claim or finding evidence that USADA does not in fact use CIR regularly.

Secondly, you make the assertion that USADA should be getting more positive results from fighters if they were using CIR, which is incorrect. Last year, outside of Brandon Rios, no one was caught positive by VADA. And Rios wasn't caught because of CIR testing. He didn't test positive for synthetic testosterone.

The only fighter that arguably got caught through CIR is Lamont Peterson. He is the one and only fighter up til today. Mickey Bey, a Mayweather Promotions fighter, also got nabbed for synthetic testosterone and that wasn't even through CIR testing, nor through VADA, or USADA, but through regular post-fight NSAC testing. So that just goes to show that your argument holds little to no weight.

Keep reading and reciting the Victor Conte manual, rather than thinking and writing critically in an unbiased manner, and you will get picked apart just like you are right now.

[TheRichCoward]

Another boxer who needs his mouth shut for him

[tangalog2200]

Again, this is a case of you not thoroughly investigating the facts. And instead, being persuaded by the Victor Conte manual.

USADA regularly uses CIR. They have went on record stating this. Conte was the leading figure that accused USADA of not 'regularly' doing CIR and they blasted back saying this is false. You cannot find any source whatsoever, outside of Conte, making a legitimate claim or finding evidence that USADA does not in fact use CIR regularly.

Secondly, you make the assertion that USADA should be getting more positive results from fighters if they were using CIR, which is incorrect. Last year, outside of Brandon Rios, no one was caught positive by VADA. And Rios wasn't caught because of CIR testing. He didn't test positive for synthetic testosterone.

The only fighter that arguably got caught through CIR is Lamont Peterson. He is the one and only fighter up til today. Mickey Bey, a Mayweather Promotions fighter, also got nabbed for synthetic testosterone and that wasn't even through CIR testing, nor through VADA, or USADA, but through regular post-fight NSAC testing. So that just goes to show that your argument holds little to no weight.

Keep reading and reciting the Victor Conte manual, rather than thinking and writing critically in an unbiased manner, and you will get picked apart just like you are right now.

hmmm....this, below somehow rings the bells loud and clear..

"Mickey Bey, a Mayweather Promotions fighter, also got nabbed for synthetic testosterone and that wasn't even through CIR testing, nor through VADA, or USADA, but through regular post-fight NSAC testing."

so nsac tests are not as useless as some made these nsac tests to appear...

so please bear with me as i am not sure about this...when the use of usada or vada was part of the fight contract, does the commission like nsac also do the test in parallel?

[radioraheem]

I respect this post, it's very well thought out and that's all I ask for in any argument/debate/discussion. My full props to you.

Mayweather popularized how drug testing is viewed in the United States. Sauerland Event fighters who fight on ARD network in Germany have long been required to undergo year-round random drug testing. I mentioned them in my article because they never get the credit they deserve.

WADA and USADA are not one and the same. USADA is the US branch of the WADA program, but Travis Tygart doesn't oversee WADA - he oversees USADA.

To follow what I mentioned in the earlier post, I'm not a Pacquiao supporter or a Mayweather hate. Anytime I mention Mayweather in an article, I refer to him as boxing's pound for pound king. If the story has anything to do with revenue generated, then I also add his title of box-office king. But I don't feel the need to mention Mayweather in every article about random drug testing. He became an advocate of it, because the alternate was admitting he (and his family) openly accuses Pacquaio of being on steroids.

It was a big deal when he fought Mosley. However, it wasn't as big a deal in subsequent fights since he only fought once per year until last year. Now it's just accepted by Mayweather opponents that a fight with him means undergoing USADA testing. Yet neither he nor anyone else from Mayweather Promotions wishes to embrace the concept of holding their stable to similar standards, not even after two of its fighters tested positive (Mickey Bey's situation is forgivable; J'Leon Love not so much).

Pacquiao undergoing VADA testing for one fight was a joke. Had Ariza not been in Rios' corner for that fight, I'm not entirely convinced the demand for random drug testing would have come up. If he was really on board, he'd have joined Tim Bradley in such testing for their rematch.

So for that, Tim Bradley gets a mention in my article for willingness to undergo year-round testing, even through all of the bull**** he endures and the minimal support he gets from his own promoter on the subject.

VADA is still young, maybe too young to develop too many bad habits. But what I know is they've tested far fewer fighters than has USADA, and have only fully been involved in boxing for half the time, yet have already caught 3x the number of fighters (at least according to public knowledge). I just struggle to wrap my mind around the fact that USADA can catch other athletes, yet boxers are the one breed that remain largely undetectable. Either that or they just manage to land all of the clean boxers (except for Erik Morales) and VADA amazingly lands the ones dumb enough to not properly mask their cheating methods.

So again, to recap to all, this article was not about the history of random drug testing in boxing. It was about Jessie Vargas being the latest fighter to enroll in the VADA program, for a fight in which his opponent - who has failed a drug test in the past - has declined to submit to similar testing.

Not every single article has to center around Mayweather and Pacquiao. I'm not that desperate for webhits. Nor do I pick a side between the two. Until they fight each other, they're both cheating the sport, so I have no reason to favor one over the other.

Here's the thing though, from my knowledge, Tim Bradley does not do year-round testing with VADA. He's just been using them for each of his fights (just as Mayweather does with USADA). Bradley is also not being sponsored, he pays for it out of pocket, and he's not doing it year-round. The few guys that are doing it year-round are doing this because of Victor Conte. Somehow, someway, Conte is sponsoring their year-round tests.

Next up, Pacquaio. Team Pacquaio originally announced that Pacquaio would be using USADA and/or VADA before the Rios bout was announced. And this was especially decided when it known that Memo Heredia was the strength and conditioning coach of Brandon Rios. But right before training camp started, Rios dropped Heredia and hired Ariza. So bringing in VADA had nothing to do with Ariza.

One last tidbit -- according to Leonard Ellerbe, Mayweather Promotions fighters are now testing 24/7 year-round via USADA. I'm partially skeptical, but I'm also persuaded to believe this is true to internally prevent any further embarrassment to Floyd.

[radioraheem]

hmmm....this, below somehow rings the bells loud and clear..

"Mickey Bey, a Mayweather Promotions fighter, also got nabbed for synthetic testosterone and that wasn't even through CIR testing, nor through VADA, or USADA, but through regular post-fight NSAC testing."

so nsac tests are not as useless as some made these nsac tests to appear...

so please bear with me as i am not sure about this...when the use of usada or vada was part of the fight contract, does the commission like nsac also do the test in parallel?

Yes, the NSAC tests are not useless. The problem is it ends up being kind of a joke because of the number of times it's done (which is like once or twice and the fighters know the dates). If it were done more times and randomly, it would be much better.

And yeah, Commissions like NSAC run their own tests regardless of whether or not a fighter is taking extra tests through services like USADA or VADA.

[JakeNDaBox]

Here's the thing though, from my knowledge, Tim Bradley does not do year-round testing with VADA. He's just been using them for each of his fights (just as Mayweather does with USADA). Bradley is also not being sponsored, he pays for it out of pocket, and he's not doing it year-round. The few guys that are doing it year-round are doing this because of Victor Conte. Somehow, someway, Conte is sponsoring their year-round tests.

To my knowledge, Bradley was doing year-round testing, at least prior to Pacquiao fight. It's possible that's no longer the case but the feedback I got (and no, not from Conte) was that he was still going 24/7/365.

Next up, Pacquaio. Team Pacquaio originally announced that Pacquaio would be using USADA and/or VADA before the Rios bout was announced. And this was especially decided when it known that Memo Heredia was the strength and conditioning coach of Brandon Rios. But right before training camp started, Rios dropped Heredia and hired Ariza. So bringing in VADA had nothing to do with Ariza.

Fair point on Memo. But Ariza was also working with Robert Garcia's fighters long before that, beginning with Mikey Garcia either right before or right after Pac was knocked out by Marquez.

One last tidbit -- according to Leonard Ellerbe, Mayweather Promotions fighters are now testing 24/7 year-round via USADA. I'm partially skeptical, but I'm also persuaded to believe this is true to internally prevent any further embarrassment to Floyd.

If this proves true, then I will gladly credit Floyd for once again serving as an ambassador on the subject. But as I recall, Ellerbe made that announcement last year and it still has yet to happen. I know he said it when speaking out on Love's failed drug test, but not sure progress was made beyond the proclomation that plans were in place to undergo. It could very well still be the case (a return phone call, text or email from them would be fantastic, but I continue to serve as lower-tier status) and they're seeking out the right opportunity to make it happen.

I appreciate all of your responses on this subject.

[iniduoh]

This is the sentiment that your article seemed to express. The fact that you gave Mayweather no credit for bringing randomized drug testing to the sport in an article about drug testing is border line bizarre. The fact that you don't criticise Pacquiao at all for refusing to do random testing is very telling of where your bias truly lies. Sometimes I feel like Bob Arum is paying you guys to write these kinds of articles. He somehow developed a huge problem with USADA also. You're okay with WADA yet you're not okay with USADA yet they're the same organization. You say that using testing as a tool in negotiations isn't what testing should be about. But that statement doesn't even make sense if you really think about it. What. kind of negotiations advantage can even be gained by requesting testing other than knowing that your opponent isn't cheating. I get it. You're a Pacquiao supporter and you don't like Floyd Mayweather. But this whole argument about testing should supersede favoritism and biases. It was a good thing that ost was introduced into the sport. Floyd Mayweather was the man who brought it to the sport. Manny Pacquiao refused to do the testing. He fell on the wrong side of the debate and no matter how many articles are written to protect his image history will not be so kind. In fact, to some, the reluctance that is shown by many boxing writers like Dan Rafael specifically to be critical of him makes Pacquiao look more su****ious. You saying that testing is just a dog and pony show mostly kind of reveals your true intentions for writing the article in the first place. Making the testing debate be about what organization is better obviously serves a completely separate agenda. VADA didn't even exist when this debate started. So what was the crux of the issue back then? VADA vs USADA is definitely not what testing should be about. IT'S pretty journalistically dishonest and irresponsible for you to shade the issue with this VADA vs USADA nonsense just because you don't want to side with Mayweather over Pacquiao. I believe that if people in the media would have been brave enough to criticize Pacquiao when he so obviously deserved it for refusing to under go random drug testing instead of siding with him no matter how poorly he behaved we would have already seen a Mayweather Pacquiao fight. Maybe even twice.

Very intelligent post

[Ray*]

I said this would be the norm within 10 years, and this was 3 years ago when I said it... In time to come people would ask why a random drug test created so much problem when no one is supposedly dirty.

[iniduoh]

Again, this is a case of you not thoroughly investigating the facts. And instead, being persuaded by the Victor Conte manual.

USADA regularly uses CIR. They have went on record stating this. Conte was the leading figure that accused USADA of not 'regularly' doing CIR and they blasted back saying this is false. You cannot find any source whatsoever, outside of Conte, making a legitimate claim or finding evidence that USADA does not in fact use CIR regularly.

Secondly, you make the assertion that USADA should be getting more positive results from fighters if they were using CIR, which is incorrect. Last year, outside of Brandon Rios, no one was caught positive by VADA. And Rios wasn't caught because of CIR testing. He didn't test positive for synthetic testosterone.

The only fighter that arguably got caught through CIR is Lamont Peterson. He is the one and only fighter up til today. Mickey Bey, a Mayweather Promotions fighter, also got nabbed for synthetic testosterone and that wasn't even through CIR testing, nor through VADA, or USADA, but through regular post-fight NSAC testing. So that just goes to show that your argument holds little to no weight.

Keep reading and reciting the Victor Conte manual, rather than thinking and writing critically in an unbiased manner, and you will get picked apart just like you are right now.

Man, Excellent!

[Inkanyamba]

I applaud Vargas. He made one very ****** mistake by leaving Mayweather Promotions but he did sort of redeem himself with him doing this. He certainly is not a coward like some other fighters who block mega fights due to being afraid of random testing.