"Alien" Hopkins vs "Krusher" Kovalev Post fight Discussion thread

[Cseeley1987]

Anybody know kovalev's ring walk music ? He comes to the ring every time playing the same song but I can't find the name of it my where. Thanks

[LacedUp]

Anyone can list many fighters, but that doesn't make you an expert. You must be aware of the context of the fights to be able to judge the achievement.

Mosley and De la Hoya were well past their primes, so he doesn't get full credit beating them.

The Marquez fight was scandalous because Floyd ignored the weigh-in limit, while Juan Manuel was moving up two weight classes in too short time, and without any PEDs, so Floyd doesn't get full credit for this win either.

Hatton was at his prime, but had to move up one weight class. Floyd should get close to full credit for that win.

Cotto was at his prime before July 2008, when he was brutalized by plaster fists. It is noticeable in that fight when water is put into the gloves to stiffen up the plaster. Miguel never fully recovered. And Cotto doesn't get any credit for beating an invalid in 2014, a disabled fighter who wasn' t even able to walk. So when Floyd won over Cotto in 2012, Miguel was well past his prime.

Floyd's second win over Castillo should get full credit. However, Castillo won their first fight, so Floyd should not get credit for that match.

The match against Canelo looked to be Floyd's most dangerous fight in a long time, but Canelo lacks many basic boxing skills and is still unable to cut off the ring when facing mobile fighters. Canelo has still flaws which can easily be exploited, so not fully credit if the 24-year-old learns how to improve them.

Hernandez was a fantastic win and Floyd had great killing instinct in that fight, so full credit.

Corrales had devastating personal problems when Floyd fought him. Six months earlier he was, for example, arrested by police for beating his then-wife Maria who was pregnant, and Corrales was due in court just after his fight with Floyd. He spent 14 months in prison as a result. How much this turbulence affected Corrales is debatable, but he certainly wasn't fully focused.

Maidana fought well 2009-2011, but was totally outclassed by Devon Alexander in 2012. Most people thought his prime was over but Robert Garcia's team seemed to have revitilized Marcos career when he won over Adrien Broner, at welterweight, in 2013. However, Broner is at his best at lightweight. Floyd gets full credit for winning this match, but many had the fight a draw.


.

Lol you want to start talking about whether they were in their prime? OK fine,

Did Mosley not come off his, possibly, career best performance when he fought Floyd? Yes he did. People were saying then that Floyd was ducking Mosley - Now they're saying Mosley was past his prime. Funny how things go.

De la hoya wasn't his absolute prime no, and he was inactive, but they fought at Oscar's weight and Oscar, once again, was also coming off one of his career best performances - as opposed to when Hopkins, the much much bigger guy, fought Oscar at a weight Oscar had only had one fight at, when he didn't look good in a razor close fight against Sturm, a fight many thought could have gone the other way.

Which is better?

Sure, Mayweather weighed in above 144, so effing what? Marquez campaigned at 147 for everyone of his fights only a year later. Not to mention he was coming off two excellent wins and could have had a win against Pacquiao as well. Wouldn't exactly call it scandalous - nevertheless, I don't even see 1 win on Hopkins resume that is as good as JMM.

Hopkins fought Pavlik at 170 - doesn't get credit for that then in your book. He fought Wright at 175 - doesn't get credit for that. He fought Oscar at 160 - doesn't get credit for that.

That leaves how many wins? Tito, Tarver, Glen Johnson, Cloud & Pascal. Are you honestly trying to tell me that those wins measure up to Hatton, Cotto - who you say was 3 years past his prime, but still came off his career most important win and has now gone on to win the MW championship - Hernandez, the long time SFW champion, Castillo, the reigning lightweight champion, and then another belt holder at 135 in Corrales who was a true warrior and a great champion?

Then you can add all the Maidana, Guerrero, Ortiz, Baldomir, Gatti, Judah, Canelo etc etc. From what I can count off Floyd's resume - He's beaten 10+ ATG/HOFamers - who 9/10 times were coming off one of the best wins in their careers but according to you automatically are shot when they fight Floyd.

Let's count how many are on Hopkins resume?

Tito, Oscar.... Tarver with an outside chance to get in the HOF? And shot to shiz Jones Jr who schooled him when both were at a better stage in their careers.

Hopkins also lost to most of the best fighters he faced like Jones jr, Calzaghe, Dawson, whilst managing to win against Tarver and Tito at their natural weight.

I can't believe you've made me stick up for Floyd on this, I'm not even a fan of his - or Hopkins for that matter - but Mayweather's resume is simply miles better than Hopkins' is.

[jas]

lacedup mate you gotta factor in longevity

[LacedUp]

lacedup mate you gotta factor in longevity

I do factor that in, and as I've stated in this thread, that's the only aspect he beats Jones jr and Mayweather in.

The quality of his resume or his skills, do not stand up to either of the other two.

At all.

[jas]

I do factor that in, and as I've stated in this thread, that's the only aspect he beats Jones jr and Mayweather in.

The quality of his resume or his skills, do not stand up to either of the other two.

At all.

you also gotta factor in the fact that this is the era of the welters

so mayweather has faced more hall of famers but....hopkins has faced the top guys in his division more so than mayweather

[LacedUp]

you also gotta factor in the fact that this is the era of the welters

so mayweather has faced more hall of famers but....hopkins has faced the top guys in his division more so than mayweather

The last part is obviously not true. And Mayweather actually beat the top guys he faced.

But secondly, should we give Hopkins fantasy points because he fights in a weak era for his division? Not for me.

Look over the middleweight reign he had. I'd be surprised if you know 5 of the guys he faced. And then he's had an up and down LHW career against mediocre opponents.

Simply no comparison at all.

[jas]

The last part is obviously not true. And Mayweather actually beat the top guys he faced.

But secondly, should we give Hopkins fantasy points because he fights in a weak era for his division? Not for me.

Look over the middleweight reign he had. I'd be surprised if you know 5 of the guys he faced. And then he's had an up and down LHW career against mediocre opponents.

Simply no comparison at all.

i do kno 5 guys he faced ....without going on boxrec

[LacedUp]

i do kno 5 guys he faced ....without going on boxrec

I'm not going into this now, but I'd be surprised if you did know 5 guys from his middleweight reign AND you could mention 1 guy each of those 5 guys had faced prior to facing hopkins.

I doubt you could, and neither could I probably. It was literally the most atrocious MW era of all time.

[jas]

I'm not going into this now, but I'd be surprised if you did know 5 guys from his middleweight reign AND you could mention 1 guy each of those 5 guys had faced prior to facing hopkins.

I doubt you could, and neither could I probably. It was literally the most atrocious MW era of all time.

im not on boxrec, take my word for it, but ill play along ,

he fought morrade hakkar - had that argument with merchant after the fight, it was a mandatory defense after a long lay off caused by legal problems

he fought keith holmes in the middleweight tournament - ive seen the fight a few times, kept getting warned for low blows by smoger, merchant said to holmes "you gotta fight him, you cant get a win like that" after holmes went down from a low blow.

fought trinidad in the final, huge underdog

fought englands howard eastman from battersea who was trained by froch current trainer robert macraken, zab judah was in the ring supporting bhop

fought carl daniels - body attacks, had argument on hbo with roy jones after the fight

de la hoya

jermain taylor

[jas]

in terms of who his oppoents faced - de la hoya fought sturm prior and mosley at welter

trinidad fought joppy in semi final of tournament

taylor fought on the eastman undercard

glen johnson was unbeaten when hopkins faced him , johnson knocked out jones

i dont know who the other guys faced but he dominated all the guys he faced pretty much

lightheavyweight never ducked who the fans thought is the number 1, cant say the same for mayweather and jones - didnt jones duck sven ottke or is that false rumour? and what about the daruis guy?