Comments Thread For: Kellerman: Donaire Creeping up on Pacquiao's P4P Rank

[GRUSTLER]

Ward i can see, though it's arguable. But Sergio is on a garbage 4 bout streak in his 2 division (first as a legit champ). There's good fights for him all around, some more feasible than others.

Martinez has taken 3 0's, KO'd 4 fighters impressively and out boxed his opponents who were all ranked in the division.

[HeroBando]

Martinez has taken 3 0's, KO'd 4 fighters impressively and out boxed his opponents who were all ranked in the division.

Dzniziruk: unranked, inactive
Barker: not top 10, 2 fights looking bad at EBU level
Macklin: solid contender < Mathebula
JCC Jr: got dropped hard by a guy that needed friendly judging vs scrub Zbik last year, with 15lb+ advantage

[GRUSTLER]

Dzniziruk: unranked, inactive
Barker: not top 10, 2 fights looking bad at EBU level
Macklin: solid contender < Mathebula
JCC Jr: got dropped hard by a guy that needed friendly judging vs scrub Zbik last year, with 15lb+ advantage

Listen, I'm not trying to hate on Donaire but my opinion is that he is not worthy to be ranked over Martinez.

[danceswithfire]

Listen, I'm not trying to hate on Donaire but my opinion is that he is not worthy to be ranked over Martinez.

who cares if youre hating or not as long as you have some valid point ..and based on your argument with bando , you have zip , nada, none

[GRUSTLER]

who cares if youre hating or not as long as you have some valid point ..and based on your argument with bando , you have zip , nada, none

So you are trying to tell me that the guys Donaire fought were and are more regarded than the guys Sergio Martinez fought? Williams and Pavlik wins alone supersede's Donaire resume no matter how you feel about his opponents. Dzinziruk was regarded as a legit fighter. Donaire fighting opponents smaller than him. Sergio couldn't even get a fight at 154 and had to move up and beat the Middle Weight champ out the gate. Made my point. The reason for the hating reference is because you are trying to label the opponents that Martinez has fought but he gets props within the sport for them wins while you sitting up here typing like everything is said and done by you? Donaire is your man but homie ain't did much yet in my opinion but that's all it is. Stop being so angry.

[whoelibits]

P4P is based on pure skill and ability, for me, and that's why for me Ward and Floyd are #1 and #2, and I can't really argue with anyone putting them both in the top ten of all time.

I've had Donaire #3 or #4 for a while, probably #3. Sure, he was big for 115, but he still made Tyson Marquez look like an amateur (when he decided to stop boxing as a southpaw), and he would still KO Darchinyan any day of the week. Sidorenko had pushed Moreno close, and was supposed to be a stiff test for Donaire when he first went up to 118, but Donaire annihilated him, messing up his nose, and he hasn't fought since. Montiel was supposed to be a tough challenge (bookmakers only had Donaire as slight favourite), but Donaire ****ed him up royally. Narvaez was a joke. Vasquez is underrated thanks to him taking Arce too lightly, imo, and Donaire beat him comfortably with one hand. Mathebula was horribly awkward, and he was made to look ordinary. Nishioka is a technically solid guy with good timing and good speed in both hands, and again Donaire made him look ordinary. Sure, just like everybody I wanna see Donaire-Moreno, Donaire-Rigondeaux etc., but Donaire has done enough to be #3 for me.

I still rate Pacquiao's win over Cotto as his best (I thought he was simply awesome that night), and I still rate his win over Margarito as very good, but he's had three attempts at Marquez and even if you think he won them all, you can't deny each fight has been a struggle. He beat Bradley and looked solid for most of the fight (**** the judges - we're talking about skill here, not "official" results); he beat a drunken chicken named Hatton as he rightly should have done; Clottey only opened up against Pacquiao once, and he landed pretty easily when he did so; and Mosley put in his worst performance I've ever seen, and it was a joke fight from the moment it was made anyway.

Martinez outworked Chavez Jr pretty easily, but Chavez never looked at all in danger of going down; Macklin is limited, imo, but he landed his feather fists on Martinez quite a bit early in their fight; Barker is a smart boxer, so I rate that win as a good one for Martinez; he was punch-perfect against Dzinziruk, in my eyes; I thought he was very impressive against Pavlik.

So, Donaire is definitely ahead of Pacquiao for me. Pacquiao has lost his edge since the last few rounds of the Margarito fight, and you just can't ignore his struggles with Marquez, whereas Donaire has just been beating everybody comfortably and making them look ordinary. It's between Pacquiao and Martinez for #4 and #5. (If Moreno beats Mares comfortably, you might put him in with those two.)

(p.s. - I see lots of lists with Klitschkos in there. For me those guys are just not skilled enough to be P4P top-six guys. And it's not because they're heavyweights - compare their actual skill with the likes of Lewis, Tyson etc., whose primes would have both been in today's top ten. Maybe you could argue Wladimir has honed his jab-jab-jab-jab-sledgehammer "skill" so much that he's virtually untouchable, but that's another debate.)

[danceswithfire]

So you are trying to tell me that the guys Donaire fought were and are more regarded than the guys Sergio Martinez fought? Williams and Pavlik wins alone supersede's Donaire resume no matter how you feel about his opponents. Dzinziruk was regarded as a legit fighter. Donaire fighting opponents smaller than him. Sergio couldn't even get a fight at 154 and had to move up and beat the Middle Weight champ out the gate. Made my point. The reason for the hating reference is because you are trying to label the opponents that Martinez has fought but he gets props within the sport for them wins while you sitting up here typing like everything is said and done by you? Donaire is your man but homie ain't did much yet in my opinion but that's all it is. Stop being so angry.

ofcourse...williams and pavlik combined is not better than montiel and darchinyan combined , 3 division champions and both p4p fighters?(i know pwill was too) and williams aint more accomplised than either montiel or darchinyan...after that who has sergio fought ? chavez jr which is defintely not better than nishioka..who else? .bando already said the things that should be said about dzinziruk , barker , etc .. i aint mad at you man , just stating facts

[HeroBando]

So you are trying to tell me that the guys Donaire fought were and are more regarded than the guys Sergio Martinez fought? Williams and Pavlik wins alone supersede's Donaire resume no matter how you feel about his opponents. Dzinziruk was regarded as a legit fighter. Donaire fighting opponents smaller than him. Sergio couldn't even get a fight at 154 and had to move up and beat the Middle Weight champ out the gate. Made my point. The reason for the hating reference is because you are trying to label the opponents that Martinez has fought but he gets props within the sport for them wins while you sitting up here typing like everything is said and done by you? Donaire is your man but homie ain't did much yet in my opinion but that's all it is. Stop being so angry.

Williams and Pavlik don't beat Montiel +Vic. Pavlik wasn't even top 20 p4p, straight out of rehab. PWill wasn't really established at middle, or even that much at SWW. His best ranked p4p win at the time was Marg, who wasn't top 20 either. But PWill was almost 2 years ago, pretty weak comp since then

[GRUSTLER]

P4P is based on pure skill and ability, for me, and that's why for me Ward and Floyd are #1 and #2, and I can't really argue with anyone putting them both in the top ten of all time.

I've had Donaire #3 or #4 for a while, probably #3. Sure, he was big for 115, but he still made Tyson Marquez look like an amateur (when he decided to stop boxing as a southpaw), and he would still KO Darchinyan any day of the week. Sidorenko had pushed Moreno close, and was supposed to be a stiff test for Donaire when he first went up to 118, but Donaire annihilated him, messing up his nose, and he hasn't fought since. Montiel was supposed to be a tough challenge (bookmakers only had Donaire as slight favourite), but Donaire ****ed him up royally. Narvaez was a joke. Vasquez is underrated thanks to him taking Arce too lightly, imo, and Donaire beat him comfortably with one hand. Mathebula was horribly awkward, and he was made to look ordinary. Nishioka is a technically solid guy with good timing and good speed in both hands, and again Donaire made him look ordinary. Sure, just like everybody I wanna see Donaire-Moreno, Donaire-Rigondeaux etc., but Donaire has done enough to be #3 for me.

I still rate Pacquiao's win over Cotto as his best (I thought he was simply awesome that night), and I still rate his win over Margarito as very good, but he's had three attempts at Marquez and even if you think he won them all, you can't deny each fight has been a struggle. He beat Bradley and looked solid for most of the fight (**** the judges - we're talking about skill here, not "official" results); he beat a drunken chicken named Hatton as he rightly should have done; Clottey only opened up against Pacquiao once, and he landed pretty easily when he did so; and Mosley put in his worst performance I've ever seen, and it was a joke fight from the moment it was made anyway.

Martinez outworked Chavez Jr pretty easily, but Chavez never looked at all in danger of going down; Macklin is limited, imo, but he landed his feather fists on Martinez quite a bit early in their fight; Barker is a smart boxer, so I rate that win as a good one for Martinez; he was punch-perfect against Dzinziruk, in my eyes; I thought he was very impressive against Pavlik.

So, Donaire is definitely ahead of Pacquiao for me. Pacquiao has lost his edge since the last few rounds of the Margarito fight, and you just can't ignore his struggles with Marquez, whereas Donaire has just been beating everybody comfortably and making them look ordinary. It's between Pacquiao and Martinez for #4 and #5. (If Moreno beats Mares comfortably, you might put him in with those two.)

(p.s. - I see lots of lists with Klitschkos in there. For me those guys are just not skilled enough to be P4P top-six guys. And it's not because they're heavyweights - compare their actual skill with the likes of Lewis, Tyson etc., whose primes would have both been in today's top ten. Maybe you could argue Wladimir has honed his jab-jab-jab-jab-sledgehammer "skill" so much that he's virtually untouchable, but that's another debate.)

Sergio Martinez's KO of Paul Williams is better than what Donaire has done. People sleep on Martinez but dude has been avoided for most of his career at 154 and moved up where he is not as big as the rest of the guys and has taken 3 undefeated records and KO'd 4 opponents and out boxed a guy who out weighed him by 20LBs, got caught flush, got up and went out swinging. Ilike Donaire but to me it is too early to put that kid on a pedestal. Let him fight Rigondeaux and some other dangerous guys. Martinez is definitely over Pacquiao. Manny hasn't done anything since Cotto and even then it was at 146. Toughest fight he had was against JMM who was moving up and previously got dominated at the same weight against Mayweather. Can't agree with the tie between Martinez and Pacquiao. Martinez is dominating while Pac has not in a long time.

[GRUSTLER]

Williams and Pavlik don't beat Montiel +Vic. Pavlik wasn't even top 20 p4p, straight out of rehab. PWill wasn't really established at middle, or even that much at SWW. His best ranked p4p win at the time was Marg, who wasn't top 20 either. But PWill was almost 2 years ago, pretty weak comp since then

Pavlik was the middle weight champ and Williams was pretty much avoided by everyone at the time. Martinez became 2010 fighter of the year off of his Pavlik and Williams wins, so don't know what you are talking about buddy.