Comments Thread For: Arum: Mayweather Refused Pacquiao Singapore Clash

[Tulisanto]

Well you just contradicted yourself right there....So again being lineal doesn't mean you're the best in the division. As you clearly pointed out with Margarito and Baldomir. And, I also gave you Toney and Nunn/Liles/Little or after Toney which was Roy Jones. Roy was better than any lineal champ including Dariusz M.

There are plenty more examples which I can give you really want me to...Where the lineal and best doesn't mean the same. Throughout history.

And, no my opinion about McClarnin being greater than Pac is not a minority opinion. I'm not saying is a right opinion nor am I saying is a wrong opinion. But, it's a opinion which is not a minority opinion.

And, if you really think you can debate about the greatness of both fighters. Then believe me you're more then welcome to. Because, we can absolutely compare their resumes...If you really wanna take it there. Which I don't think you do. So save yourself the trouble.

But, Pac career is not over...We don't know where he would rank. Lets not forget that a lot of people were saying Roy Jones was a top 10 ATG after the Ruiz win...Now? Not so much.

i dont really know how i contradicted my self there. being a lineal champ is being the best, that is the common rule unless you wanna selective about it! and yes, i beligve you are in minory for sayin mc clarnin unless people who matter have him at top 5 p4p atg. i know where sugar rankend pac 5 fights ago. again where talking about rankings of the ones that matter.

[jrosales13]

i dont really know how i contradicted my self there. being a lineal champ is being the best, that is the common rule unless you wanna selective about it! and yes, i beligve you are in minory for sayin mc clarnin unless people who matter have him at top 5 p4p atg. i know where sugar rankend him 5 fights ago. again where talking about rankings of the ones that matter.

Because again, being lineal doesn't mean being the best...And, there's plenty of examples which even you stated to prove it.

I didn't know Bert Sugar is the be all and end all of ATG rankings...Sugar has Dempsey at #9...It's a very small minority who agree with that...Sugar doesn't have Monzon in the top 50, that's a very small minority who believe that. Historians who matter like Henry Hascup and Monty Cox...Even krikya360.com own Cliff Rold would not agree with that.

Sugar is a lazy historian....With all the resources he has...He says the most outrageous things...He's on the same level of Mike Silver another historian and doesn't have Pac in the top 100 ATG. Silver like Sugar like to say some of the most outlandish things. That most historians disagree with. Both are on the same level. And, that's a level below of Crold1, HHascup, and Monty D. Cox.

Why would you believe that Sugar is more important than these respectable knowledgeable historians? Because, he wears a hat, smokes a cigar and comes out on ESPN from time to time? His opinion isn't worth more than these other people. And, from what I heard Hascup has got the better of him in a few debates.

And, from what I remember Sugar said that Pac is top 20 ATG and the GOAT as a southpaw. Not top 5 ATG, I think Steward who also says a lot of outlandish statements was the one who said top 5. But, again Historian or like who you like the name the ones that matter. Don't agree with that. So that's a minority opinion.

[LeadUppercut]

Well you just contradicted yourself right there....So again being lineal doesn't mean you're the best in the division. As you clearly pointed out with Margarito and Baldomir. And, I also gave you Toney and Nunn/Liles/Little or after Toney which was Roy Jones. Roy was better than any lineal champ including Dariusz M.

There are plenty more examples which I can give you really want me to...Where the lineal and best doesn't mean the same. Throughout history.

And, no my opinion about McClarnin being greater than Pac is not a minority opinion. I'm not saying is a right opinion nor am I saying is a wrong opinion. But, it's a opinion which is not a minority opinion.

And, if you really think you can debate about the greatness of both fighters. Then believe me you're more then welcome to. Because, we can absolutely compare their resumes...If you really wanna take it there. Which I don't think you do. So save yourself the trouble.

But, Pac career is not over...We don't know where he would rank. Lets not forget that a lot of people were saying Roy Jones was a top 10 ATG after the Ruiz win...Now? Not so much.

Damn, I just wrote detailed response to your last two posts, then I accidentally leaned on my mouse button, and the fkn txt disappeared.

Just quickly, and I can get back into it tomorrow......

Your Baldo example, agreed, until you mentioned Margarito, who I had 3rd at best, but the point is, the lineal champ Baldo was not in the top 5..... lineage means next to nothing imho. And yep the Michalczewski example was one of the first to pop into my mind, but there are many more examples of a lineal champ not being the best in the division.

Also totally agree about McClarnin, actually I over-agree and cannot understand how you could compare Pacquiao with him, would love to debate resume's on that one with ya, but tomorrow, not now.

Wont that be a short conversation?

And I completely disagree with your comparision with weight gain, The actual figures would likely astound you, wish I could still find them. Fighthype did a review of the weight gain of every fighter in recorded history.

Pac was second, by only 1lb, to a guy who finished his career at HEAVYWEIGHT, and who used steroids to get there. You know who I am referring to. Which is highly fkn su****ious in itself.

Wish I could find that list, but I cant so I wont push the issue there without being able to substantiate that, but I completely disagree with that comparison. I think they recorded the top 40 highest weight gains of all time, which admittedly isnt many, but I doubt that McLarnin was even close.

[Everywhere]

Did you see the Austin-Rafa Marquez fight? My goodness Marquez hit like a truck in that weight-class.

Sorry, you just took me to memory lane. With mentioning boxers from the 90's...My goodness the talent of that era puts this era to shame.

I totally just rewatched that fight...man it was a pretty close fight, it actually made me want to go larry and ask nsb who was the last fighter anyone can remember who could really stick a jab as a southpaw. I feel like a ******, but Winky (Check_hooks wanted you to know his brother's name is Ronald) Wright is the last guy I can think of...

[LeadUppercut]

i dont really know how i contradicted my self there. being a lineal champ is being the best, that is the common rule unless you wanna selective about it! and yes, i beligve you are in minory for sayin mc clarnin unless people who matter have him at top 5 p4p atg. i know where sugar rankend pac 5 fights ago. again where talking about rankings of the ones that matter.

Bert Sugar's opinion matters ?

" Marquez won both fights "
Bert Sugar

[jrosales13]

Damn, I just wrote detailed response to your last two posts, then I accidentally leaned on my mouse button, and the fkn txt disappeared.

Just quickly, and I can get back into it tomorrow......

Your Baldo example, agreed, until you mentioned Margarito, who I had 3rd at best, but the point is, the lineal champ Baldo was not in the top 5..... lineage means next to nothing imho. And yep the Michalczewski example was one of the first to pop into my mind, but there are many more examples of a lineal champ not being the best in the division.

Also totally agree about McClarnin, actually I over-agree and cannot understand how you could compare Pacquiao with him, would love to debate resume's on that one with ya, but tomorrow, not now.

Wont that be a short conversation?

And I completely disagree with your comparision with weight gain, The actual figures would likely astound you, wish I could still find them. Fighthype did a review of the weight gain of every fighter in recorded history.

Pac was second, by only 1lb, to a guy who finished his career at HEAVYWEIGHT, and who used steroids to get there. You know who I am referring to. Which is highly fkn su****ious in itself.

Wish I could find that list, but I cant so I wont push the issue there without being able to substantiate that, but I completely disagree with that comparison. I think they recorded the top 40 highest weight gains of all time, which admittedly isnt many, but I doubt that McLarnin was even close.

If fighthype made that list and had Pac at #2 behind someone who did steroids...Then fighthype is a website that's run by idiots who don't know their fucking history either.

[jrosales13]

I totally just rewatched that fight...man it was a pretty close fight, it actually made me want to go larry and ask nsb who was the last fighter anyone can remember who could really stick a jab as a southpaw. I feel like a ******, but Winky (Check_hooks wanted you to know his brother's name is Ronald) Wright is the last guy I can think of...

Wait...What?

[Tulisanto]

Because again, being lineal doesn't mean being the best...And, there's plenty of examples which even you stated to prove it.

I didn't know Bert Sugar is the be all and end all of ATG rankings...Sugar has Dempsey at #9...It's a very small minority who agree with that...Sugar doesn't have Monzon in the top 50, that's a very small minority who believe that. Historians who matter like Henry Hascup and Monty Cox...Even krikya360.com own Cliff Rold would not agree with that.

Sugar is a lazy historian....With all the resources he has...He says the most outrageous things...He's on the same level of Mike Silver another historian and doesn't have Pac in the top 100 ATG. Silver like Sugar like to say some of the most outlandish things. That most historians disagree with. Both are on the same level. And, that's a level below of Crold1, HHascup, and Monty D. Cox.

Why would you believe that Sugar is more important than these respectable knowledgeable historians? Because, he wears a hat, smokes a cigar and comes out on ESPN from time to time? His opinion isn't worth more than these other people. And, from what I heard Hascup has got the better of him in a few debates.

And, from what I remember Sugar said that Pac is top 20 ATG and the GOAT as a southpaw. Not top 5 ATG, I think Steward who also says a lot of outlandish statements was the one who said top 5. But, again Historian or like who you like the name the ones that matter. Don't agree with that. So that's a minority opinion.

well, i belive him more than i belive your opinion becuase for one, he is credible , you are not. 2 , he has seen more fights than you could possibly watch in your lifetime 3. he is a boxing historian for a reason , and your just a young poster on nsb. youre a kindergarten when it comes to knowldege about the sport compared to him. again , if you think your opinion is right , you have that right but it does'nt make it credible at all. and no sugar had pac in the teens since the cotto fight , so i think pac has moved up since given he has beaten guys like margo ( hwever you wanna downplay it) had 17 lbs over than him , somehthing that is not a simple task to do. pac fought all of them with obviouss size advantage over him and made it look easy will be big factor when everything is said and done.

[dldwizard]

Stop crying ****head.

You replied, but..... made no attempt whatsoever to indicate what you disagreed with. Give yourself an uppercut and go stand in the corner, you fanboy clown.

what i'm disagreeing with? did you fscking read what i post? ragging on you for being the biggest fscking ***** hippo here in nsb.. i mean you spend your entire waking hours (another thing i can't believe cause a man got to work to eat) rearranging, twisting facts and ignoring plain truths just to b|tch about one boxer that refuse to take a test that everyone knew, except for you and the hardcode *****s here in nsb, is just another stage in the 'piss off the other camp and mess with their head'.. your vaunted osdt.. talking about level the playing field.. well fsck.. a lot of fights have been fought since then that didn't have any osdt and where is your frigging justified indignation.. where's the daily fscking rants.. ragging these boxers.. where the heck is it? i don't see you creating thread after thread cursing these boxers like your doing with pac..

so until you start doing these things to other boxers as well, you will always be a fscking hippo.. you may try as hard as you can to portray yourself as an intelligent poster but your fscking hatred is messing up with your fscking head and you only come across as a demented hater..

[LeadUppercut]

If fighthype made that list and had Pac at #2 behind someone who did steroids...Then fighthype is a website that's run by idiots who don't know their fucking history either.

I gotta go man, but I will be back tomorrow. The point is, it was not fighthypes opinion, they simply compiled a spreadsheet detailing the recorded facts and figures...... the figures showed that Manny had the second highest recorded weight gain in boxing history, and that he was second only to a guy who finished at HW - which is astounding man, think about it - and he was only second by 1lb, which again, is astounding for a guy who makes his living in the lower divisions.

I dont mean to get into the steroid thing, just the McClarnin comparision, which I believe was waaay off.

Tomorrow ^^