Max Kellerman calls Pacquiao the greatest fighter ever! Do you agree?

[Squizz]

So are you saying Hopkins was in his prime at that time. Hopkins was a crude brawler when he first fought Roy. He was green as they come.

If you gonna give excuses for weight drained fighter then you can't give praises for Roy beating Toney because Toney was also weight drain.

Sure Toney was weight-drained. I'll give you that. But beating James Toney in 1994 is still an impressive feat. Even weight-drained he was still a VERY dangerous fighter, and ranked very highly on most p4p lists.

Manny's resume of late hasn't been one of guys coming off impressive wins. Not knocking him at all, but he's beaten up some pretty shop-worn fighters to be honest. And Mosley falls into that category as well.

If Manny fights a top caliber opponent at 140lbs or 147lbs in his next fight (assuming he does in fact fight) I'll give him a lot more credit. His last real threat was Cotto IMO, and Cotto was coming off the Margarito beatdown. So looking past that, his last real test was against JMM, who came very close to beating him. I thought Manny won that fight by one round.

Not taking anything away from Pacquiao though. Because, when he was beating up the Barrera's, and Morales's of the world with ease, it truly was a sight to behold. He's earned everything he's gotten.

[Haglerwins]

So are you saying Hopkins was in his prime at that time. Hopkins was a crude brawler when he first fought Roy. He was green as they come.

If you gonna give excuses for weight drained fighter then you can't give praises for Roy beating Toney because Toney was also weight drain.

BullSHlT!

Hopkins was prime age wise. He wasn't boxing prime till his mid damn 30's, so let's not say Roy had to wait there between a fight between them was legit. And FOH. You're not green if before and after Roy you were doing nothing but winning.

EXCUSES?! No you mofos are making excuses. Toney wasn't forced to fight at MW under penalty. If he couldn't make weight, that's entirely HIS fault. I personally don't accept it (like most fighter's excuses when they lose, notice just about every fighter has one when they lose too.. even down to Clottey's ******ed mama's stew excuse).

Manny's team is going into these fights trying to tip the scales in their favor (pun intended) before their opponent sets one foot in the ring.

GOAT when your trainer is saying we picked this guy because 'he can't pull the trigger and won't have juice underweight', we picked this guy because 'after Floyd we saw he has no legs', etc. etc?!

His own trainer unknowingly nicked his accomplishments and I'm supposed to take this 8 division champ **** seriously?! LMAO.

****, Manny ain't fought a good game skilled fighter since Marquez.

Everybody disses Floyd, but at least he challenges himself and doesn't try to get a pre-fight advantage. Despite his knuckle headed rep - Judah 'in a styles clash' was considered a serious threat to beat him and gave Floyd one of his toughest fights to date, UNDEFEATED Hatton who had just shown he had a damn good chin at 147 beating Collazo, dealing with Urango, and shown WW power putting Castillo away with 1 punch. You would've thought Ricky was the favorite on this site.

Then there's Oscar who he let have EVERY advantage including fighting him at 154 and the #2 WW Mosley, a fight Roach wouldn't take pre-Mayweather citing that he was 'too good'.

Bullshlt man, we get a guy beating on left overs and fighters his team made sure to drain.. (not a guy showing up to his own fight not taking the initiative to be in shape) I'm talking team Pac's strategy of getting you under weight as a part of their fight plan.

****, Cotto is ****ing HUNGRY in the last 24/7 for you mofos don't think that weight drained **** doesn't have an effect. So, we got a guy starving himself some to get a fight wo penalty against that man.

This is bullshet. Greatest ever? Top 5? Top 10-25? Yall are losing your minds.

I might stick Manny in a top 50 right now. Until he fights another opponent in a styles clash or someone who isn't noticeably slower than he is.. I'm not impressed as much when you show you can beat non prime guys who you don't have to overcome much, if any adversity against.

[hugh grant]

Pac is the greatest southpaw ever, and seemingly ambidextrous and its good reason to believe the greatest southpaw ever would be the greatest fighter ever (if they have sufficiently good names on the resume, which Pac has), as people cant deal with them.
And southpaws train solely to beat Orthodox fighters. Its logical to think the best ever fighter would be a southpaw.

[lfc19titles]

two years ago cotto, margarito, mosley and clottey were the top 4 ring ww ranking welters, manny by may will have defeated them all within 2 years

greatest of all time

[Walt Liquor]

BullSHlT!

Hopkins was prime age wise. He wasn't boxing prime till his mid damn 30's, so let's not say Roy had to wait there between a fight between them was legit. And FOH. You're not green if before and after Roy you were doing nothing but winning.

EXCUSES?! No you mofos are making excuses. Toney wasn't forced to fight at MW under penalty. If he couldn't make weight, that's entirely HIS fault. I personally don't accept it (like most fighter's excuses when they lose, notice just about every fighter has one when they lose too.. even down to Clottey's ******ed mama's stew excuse).

Manny's team is going into these fights trying to tip the scales in their favor (pun intended) before their opponent sets one foot in the ring.

GOAT when your trainer is saying we picked this guy because 'he can't pull the trigger and won't have juice underweight', we picked this guy because 'after Floyd we saw he has no legs', etc. etc?!

His own trainer unknowingly nicked his accomplishments and I'm supposed to take this 8 division champ **** seriously?! LMAO.

****, Manny ain't fought a good game skilled fighter since Marquez.

Everybody disses Floyd, but at least he challenges himself and doesn't try to get a pre-fight advantage. Despite his knuckle headed rep - Judah 'in a styles clash' was considered a serious threat to beat him and gave Floyd one of his toughest fights to date, UNDEFEATED Hatton who had just shown he had a damn good chin at 147 beating Collazo, dealing with Urango, and shown WW power putting Castillo away with 1 punch. You would've thought Ricky was the favorite on this site.

Then there's Oscar who he let have EVERY advantage including fighting him at 154 and the #2 WW Mosley, a fight Roach wouldn't take pre-Mayweather citing that he was 'too good'.

Bullshlt man, we get a guy beating on left overs and fighters his team made sure to drain.. (not a guy showing up to his own fight not taking the initiative to be in shape) I'm talking team Pac's strategy of getting you under weight as a part of their fight plan.

****, Cotto is ****ing HUNGRY in the last 24/7 for you mofos don't think that weight drained **** doesn't have an effect. So, we got a guy starving himself some to get a fight wo penalty against that man.

This is bullshet. Greatest ever? Top 5? Top 10-25? Yall are losing your minds.

I might stick Manny in a top 50 right now. Until he fights another opponent in a styles clash or someone who isn't noticeably slower than he is.. I'm not impressed as much when you show you can beat non prime guys who you don't have to overcome much, if any adversity against.

[Walt Liquor]

anyway, this is a dumb thread.

[Avenue]

for my generation nope
i still say Floyd is #1

[New England]

he's a great fighter

he's an even better offensive specimen



but he's just not the GOAT
he isn't. he's not even the best to ever lace them up in any of the weight classes he's campaigned. i havn't heard any reputable expert argue for manny's supremacy in a single weight class.


virtually all experts call sugar ray robinson was the best welterweight to ever live. footage of prime robinson doesn't exist, but the best of the best writers and experts (who see fighters from many generations, and often have tenures of many decades) say that he was the greatest ever. In his prime he had no flaws. He possessed every quality you could ever want in a fighter: atg speed, atg chin, atg two handed power, skills skills skills and experience, size and strength, heart, great engine, point getting / crowd pleasing style.


to boot, he's considered by many (not me) to be the best MIDDLEWEIGHT of all time. is that even registering with the pacquiao fans? He's the best WW ever and one of the best MW's ever, and manny is nowhere near the best in any of the weight classes he's campaigned.



if manny pacquiao existed in a climate where smaller, great fighters were commanding the most money (say at LW or jr WW) he'd have a chance to operate against guys his size, in weight classes where he belongs

jumping to WW has forced manny to be choosy with his opponents
he's a WW for the money, anyway, so why not make sound business decisions.


in other words, matchmaking and weight jumping haven't neccessarily allowed us to find out how good manny could have been


in terms of greatness, manny still has work to do to even earn a spot among the best to ever fight

and in terms of who is the "best" fighter ever (accomplishments thrown out the window, we are talking about how good a fighter is a his weight class and how he will do head to head
ray robinson's got that one on lock for the foreseeable future it seems

[blacksocks]

Ranking ATGs is all about perception.

The problem with Manny is that he is knocking out or dominating these bigger top division contenders that makes people think they are shot. No doubt, Manny has improved so much from the last time he fought a prime Marquez at 130.

Consider this: many are raving about Ortiz because of his close fight with Berto and is now being considered a top contender against Pacquiao. But Ortiz got beat by Maidana who in turn struggled against Erik Morales who in turn was blown out in 3 rounds by Pacquiao when he wasn't as good as he is now.

People may think Manny's opposition are weak because of how they fared against him, but it can also mean that Manny is simply in a different league. Too bad, without Floyd fighting him, there is no one who can really give him a challenge and test his greatness, other than further going up the divisions where he might get beat primarily due to size difference instead of ability.

We can only hypothesize how well he can match up with the ATGs in the different eras around the 140 to 147 divisions. IMHO, he can hold his own.