there has been many robberies this year, last year, the year before and so forth....and this aint even the worst of them all!!!
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Round 1
No one is doing a bunch of anything this round, Bradley's pitter-atter jab stays in Manny's face almost the entire round, 10-9 Bradley as two or three solid punches does not earn you a round.
Round 2
Pausing round 2 briefly, can already see how people are going to use the compubox numbers against Bradley, he's throwing the left jab out to keep Manny at bay. Unpausing.
Had Manny backing up most of the round, towards the end of the round, dropped his gloves and let Manny swing on him, missing virtually all of the swings. 20-18 Bradley
Round 3
Pausing round 3 briefly. Bradley is out Mannying Manny, basically just throwing punches out there. Making Manny pick his spots. Unpausing.
Pacquiao finally woke up and if I have to give anyone this round, it'd be him. 29-28 Bradley. Pacquiao did more, but a lot of these punches are missing from him.
The thing that is surprising me thus far. Manny is not walking through these punches. Bradley has paltry KO numbers, but Manny is backpedaling most thus far in this fight
Round 4
Harold Lederman's care has just flashed on the screen. 30-27 is just wrong. I could just hear lampley going crazy of whatever manny is doing now.I have sound on mute. I don't know what fight he is watching thus far.
So far on the official score cards, all three have Manny 29-28
Pausing, this is some sloppy ass boxing from both fighters, unpausing
Manny thinks he's found something with a left uppercut as he's gone to it a few times, yet is hitting air
Bradley is still, for the most part, in Manny's face.
Last minute of the round wins it for Pacquiao as he finally starts to let the hands go and was quicker to the punch, lol. Most explosive punches and combos were landed by him and made Bradley stumble and lose his footing
38-38
Round 5
LMFAO with this biased HBO feed. They make it seem like Bradley was there for target practice. Every ****ing round has Manny clips. HAHAHAHA
Admittedly, round 4 was the clearest round thus far by any fighter.
Pausing. Bradley starts off the round with ring generalship, controlling the middle of the round. He's done this every one. Judges look at this as one barometer for who is in control. Only when someone has made a name for themselves on defense like a Floyd or a Pernell, will judges not hold this against you. Unpausing
Pausing. Finally with two minutes left in the round, does Manny choose to stalk Bradley as Bradley is backpedalling, Unpausing.
Pausing, he's doing a decent job staying out of the way of Manny's straight left. Most are just grazing his head. Still counts as a power shot on Compubox though. Also, Bradley is flickering his jab out, but seems less frequent.Unpausing
I have no idea why Bradley decided he wanted to start brawling here as Manny again stumbled Bradley.
48-47 Pacquiao
Round 6
Thoughts thus far. Neither is landing a lot clean. Manny has won his rounds based on this cleaner punches though while Bradley has won on pure aggression by staying in Manny's face and peppering him with jabs, just basically being more active. If I know Jim Lampley as well as I think I do, he has people thinking this is a whitewash thus far, when it clearly is not, however, at this point, Manny is ahead of my card
Pausing. Manny came ouf of the corner first, but then resumed his role of letting Bradley throw weak jabs at him for the first part of virtually every round. Basically what Manny did to Clottey all fight, Unpausing
At the 2:20 mark, Manny takes role of aggressor, then reverts back to throwing his arms up to guard.
I feel that they both did roughly the same and this is my first toss-up round, but I think I need to give this to Pacquaio but of the stuff that was happening in the corner and Manny let loose for a bit. These are by no means clean shots that either are really throwing though.
58-56 Pacquiao
Round 7
More of the ****ery from HBO on round 6, however, that stuff in the corner was worth showing.
At this point in time, the three judges has it 59-56, 58-56, 58-56, all in favor of Pacquiao
Pausing, midway point of round, both are swing wild for the fences. Manny is controlling ring now Unpausing
Pausing, as 27 punches to Pacquaio vs 9 to Bradley just flashed, that is bull ****ing ****. Much closer, but Manny won this round.
68-65 Pacquiao
Round 8
Thoughts so far. Bradley is backing up, but he's not laying any traps. Manny moves forward in a straight line, not cutting off of the ring at any point of this fight. Bradley looks like he's trying to control distance and box. Good idea, he's lost five rounds in a row on my card
Pretty lackluster round but it was a Bradley round. Interestingly enough. Jinkee Pacquiao was jumping up and down eariler. There is a look of concern on her face now.
77-75 Pacquaio
Round 9
Thoughts as the minute between rounds passes. These numbers are bogus from compubox. I feel that they are when Floyd fights and they are in this fight.
80-72 Pacquiao by Lederman SMDH
Pausing. Manny is doing a lot of smiling, but he's not doing a lot of throwing punches. Bradley still tossing that weak left jab out there. However, it shows that Bradley has Manny's timing down as his left has been shut down. Unpausing.
By the middle of the round, I thought Manny sealed this with a bow, then Bradley came back with some stuff of his own. Do I give the round for harder punching or for more agression and weaker punches. Can' t decide, round is a draw
87-85 Manny
Round 10
So far on official score cards, 88-83 Manny, 86-85 Manny, 85-86 Bradley
Pausing, finally seeing Bradley's jab slip through the guard of Manny consistently. Unpausing
Pausing, Bradley fully back to boxing it seems, he's controlling where the fight is going now. Manny is still following in straight line. Unpausing
Manny wakes up in like the last 15 seconds of the round. This is Bradley's clearest round yet. Punching (wide) off of ref separations, outpunching in the few clinches and controlling the action.
96-95 Manny
Round 11
Thoughts between rounds, more Manny highlight stuff. I mean, is HBO trying to pitch Manny gear here? Bradley, while not as flashy, as done some good things thus far. Geez
Lederman finally gives Bradley a round, lol. As I stated, that was a clear Bradley round. All three official score cards show that as well
Pausing, neither has been in any real danger, Manny seems content to let Tim throw jabs all day. Whenever Bradley has been able to slow down the workrate of Manny, he's made him look like a club fighter, like he did in round 10 and so far, this has the makings of the same thing. Unpausing.
Pausing, Bradley is turning Manny at will, (weak) left jab to the face, rinse and repeat, Unpausing.
Ring generalship and the left jab won it for Bradley
105-105 - Tie
Round 12
Thoughts so far, boring fight. Jinkee sit emotionless. So does Tim's wife
Pausing. Pitty-Pat left jab, pitty-pat left jab, zzzzzzzzzzzzz. Unpausing
Pausing. I don't know why Tim decided to get froggy and scrap with Manny again. That's how he gave up all those middle rounds. Unpausing.
Round was a draw.
Fight was 115-115
I can see the fight going either way, depending on how you judge scoring.
Lackluster fight. You know who beats either with ease on their best day.
So, robbery, this was not.Comment
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Close fights can't be robberies.
And the only reason a majority thinks its a robbery is because of Manny Star status and they don't give any credit to Tim based on his power.Comment
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Skip Bayless, ESPN: 119-109 Pacquiao
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
IdiotComment
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Fabian O. (Cebu, Philippines): I saw your post on Facebook that you felt the fight fans were robbed with Manny Pacquaio, but you later recanted that statement saying that after watching the fight you feel otherwise. How can you justify being the only journalist in the sport who supports Bradley winning that fight?
Vivek W.: I feel this entire Pacquiao/Bradley scenario is incredible on so many levels because it gives us a deep scope into a few blatant realities that most know, yet fail to acknowledge. Before I even get into that can of worms, let me be clear in addressing your question, because a lot of speculation has been made about a response I never completely gave. Yes...I posted "after watching the fight a few more times I'd like to recant my opinion from last night"; but I never gave an indication of my actual thoughts. I purposely opted not to elaborate at the time so I could do it in an open forum......so here we go:
By the end of the night, looking at a Harold Lederman card that was a near shutout and listening to a commentating staff that spoke one language, I honestly felt that this was a highway robbery. Many others shared the same opinion. Those who have followed my work over the years know that I always score two scorecards for situations just like these. One with what I felt I actually witnessed, and one where I purposely give all close rounds to the "house fighter", or the man in the ring who would typically get the benefit of the doubt in close rounds....typically the bigger name or the champion.....as this is what I've always felt many of the judges have done in the past when in doubt.
On both my traditional card and my "leaning card", I had Bradley up 3-0 after three rounds, and it was based on much cleaner punches landed and barely being hit with anything in return by a Pacquiao who actually appeared very confused during that stretch (in my opinion). Over the course of the following rounds, things got a bit intriguing, and by the end of the night, my traditional card had a draw, with Bradley winning the first three rounds and the final three, with Pacquiao sweeping everything in between. My "leaning" card had Pacquiao ahead by four points, giving him the benefit of the doubt in a few of those rounds where he didn't do as much, yet landed the more effective punches in quick bursts.....the "ooh-ahh" crowd-pleasing barrages.
Where things all went out the back window is that, oddly enough, we were presented with a twist from the judges. Looming in the backdrop of this epic affair was common knowledge that Pacquiao simply hasn't looked great in roughly 3-4 fights now, and the last being extremely disputed for the third time against the same man. In hindsight, it appears this team of judges said, "You know what? Everyone thinks we won't give the other guy the benefit of the doubt when it comes to Pacquiao, so this time, we will!" This mentality was never spoken, obviously, yet it was evident in the fact that between all 3 scorecards, there were only a couple rounds scored definitively in a simultaneous fashion across the board with all judges agreeing at the same time.
All of the close rounds that would typically go to the bigger name or the champ seemed to have gone the other way, and I can't say I support it, but I am cognizant of the numerous times Pacquiao was the beneficiary of those calls himself. The more I re-watched the fight, twice without the aid of any sound, the more I realized two things: First, Manny Pacquiao actually looked very, very bad by his typical standards. His best showing was the late round flurries, but rarely was there truly an actual sustained attack, with the exception of most middle rounds. He fought uncharacteristically one-dimensional, and failed to land his patented shots more often than not.
The more I watched the replay, the more it hit me that we as fight fans aren't outraged at the decision as much as we are outraged at the fact that it finally happened to someone we never thought the sport would do it to. Looking back in history, this wasn't even close to the biggest robbery I've ever seen. Abril/Rios was far more of a robbery! Marquez/Paquiao III was slightly more of a robbery.....and I can go down the line from there. Bottom line, the same benefit Pacquiao has gotten atleast twice in his career, on this night, simply went the other way.
I didn't like it when it happened to Abril, but the world carried on. I didn't like it when it happened to Marquez, yet the world moved on. I didn't like that it happened to Pacquiao, but I can't let the world stop here either simply because the masses feel it should. This is nothing new in this corrupt sport we love. What's new is that it happened to a man whose greatness gave his fans a sense of entitlement that has apparently faded like their biggest star appears to be. I don't think Bradley won. Even on my "leaning" card, I had it a draw, but am I going to bash the judges for playing a hand they've dealt to many other hardworking men and women in the sport? No. I leave you all with these two things:
Ask yourself was it the worst robbery you've ever seen? I would say easily it was NOT. Secondly, ask yourself, are you outraged because of what happened, or the fact that it happened to someone you didn't think it ever would happen to? Remember fight fans.....Pacquiao is a member of the sport.....he isn't bigger than the sport. Let me go Biblical to help solidify my point: (Luke 14:11 paraphrased) - Those who are humble will be exalted.....those who we exalt themselves (or in this case those who some choose to exalt) will be humbled....(for the Bible tells me so)! Happens to the best, and Saturday night, it literally did! Absolutely Pacquiao won the fight....but apparently to the 3 judges sitting ringside, he didn't. It's all a part of boxing......remember that?
Caeser H. (St. Louis, MO): There are a lot of conspiracy theories about the way the Pacquiao fight ended. Do you feel any hold true weight?
Vivek W.: Honestly, it's hard to know what to believe and what not to in this sport. All I think any of us can do is go by what we see and know to be fact....not what we hear to be fact. What I know to be fact is that Pacquiao has looked far less than himself quite a bit lately. What I do know is that many insiders stated that he didn't look too great in camp. What I do know is that on the podium of the weigh-in, I was totally miffed to see a normally shredded legend of the sport appear soft around the mid-section, only to weigh-in heavier than he ever has moments later.
When I look at each of these things, I think it's safe to say what I also know is that this appears to be a man who has little interest in what he does at this stage. For whatever it's worth, Pacquiao is human too! All the wars....all the battles....all of the "old life" that he has recently given up has apparently caught up with him to the point where he's a changed man....and not in the sense he has preached lately. He's changed in the sense that he is no longer super. He really isn't. The only conspiracy theory that I could subscribe to is the possibility of Arum realizing this, and if there were any strings to be pulled, he knew how to pull them.
Arum has said all along that "if Pacquiao looked the way he did against Marquez, he will lose". Well, guess what? Pacquiao did. And guess what? He lost! Was the "fix" in? I can't say and won't attempt to, but that being said, I've seen enough in this sport to realize anything is possible. I can't say it's a fact, but I wouldn't go as far as shooting down the theory of those who felt Arum pulled a few strings, aiming to keep Marquez and Mayweather from getting a shot, and allowing such a loss for Pacquiao to return in November, give it some rejuvenated effort in a heartfelt victory via KO stoppage, allowing him to walk off into the sunset, running for office in his country in 2013, and leaving the sport like he said he would (before that calendar year).
I can't say that's beyond the realm of belief, because I know this sport is truly capable of anything, no matter how hard it is to believe. All I'll say is that I don't typically do (or believe) conspiracy theories, but after what we witnessed Saturday night, I can't turn my back on any theory because it always seems to get worse than we felt it could. Pacquiao opened the VisionQwest inquiry against Arum and Top Rank. Suddenly it went away. Could Arum be cashing his chips in on a man who appears to be the next cash cow in his stable to defect, following Oscar, Floyd, and Cotto? Perhaps. Again, we don't know, and it's all speculative, but it's also possible, because in this sport, it seems everything is!
Hector U. (Miami Lakes, FL): How did you see Rigondeaux's performance?
Vivek W.: I feel Rigondeaux is one of the most talented men in the sport right now. He doesn't put the cheeks-in-seats like many of us love, but he does have an incredible amount of talent and he just keeps on looking better! I really think the sky is the limit for him. His speed, his power, his precision punches, his defense......I really think there isn't much he can't do. The kid looks amazing, and I think it's safe to say we'll be seeing him do a lot more before it's all over and done.
Vivek "VitoComment
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NEVER WATCHING BOXING EVER AGAIN IF THEY DONT FLIP THE dECISION
What a robbedComment
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Oh, boo fucking hoo! Grow some nuts and take it like a man! JMM was blatantly robbed three times by your fake saint and did we see an investigation? No! Arum said it was just business, remember?Originally posted by blasyaface View PostComment
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good riddance then
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In Rnd 5, Pac landed 9 and Bradley 16. Compubox claims 22 for Pac and 8 for Bradley.
I found the compubox numbers to be exaggerated so I picked a random round to analyze. I downloaded an HD 60fps version of the fight and I watched the round in extremely slow motion (please put the jokes aside). When it looked like a punch landed, I watched it frame by frame to make sure it did.
Here are the results of every punch landed with a short description of the punch. Only kept tract of the punches landed. Don't care about thrown.
2:32 Bradley body punch
2:32 Bradly body Punch
2:16 Bradley jab
1:59 Pacquia right hook
1:46 Bradley right
1:43 Bradley left
1:38 Bradley jab
1:37 Bradly grazing right hook
1:29 Braldey southpaw left
1:29 Bradley right
1:21 Bradley jab
1:19 Bradley jab
0:59 Bradley jab
0:43 Bradley jab
0:36 Pacquiao right hook
0:33 Pacquiao right hook
0:22 Pacquiao right hook
0:14 Pacquiao left hook
0:12 Bradley right hook
0:12 Pacquiao right hook
0:10 Pacquiao left hook
0:10 Pacquiao right hook
0:01 Pacquia straight left
0:01 Bradley body shot
0:01 Bradlye body shot
In the end, Pacquiao landed 9 punches and Bradley landed 16. There were a few punches that were hard to call, but this is about right. Notice that Pacquiao only landed 1 punch in the first 2 minutes and 24 seconds of the fight. The punches landed after came from a flurry that didn't really land that cleanly. Bradley actually landed the cleaner punches in this round surprisingly. This is actually a pretty clear round that should go to Bradley after close scrutiny. Compubox somehow got 22 punches for Pac and 8 for Bradley. So yeah, lets stop paying attention to compubox numbers.Last edited by DoktorSleepless; 06-11-2012, 06:13 AM.Comment
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