Why i believe Pac is on PED's.

[Kingstan315]

Yes, if I suspected foul play definitely. Floyd said himself "level playing field" yet couldnt drop to 144 and renegotiates contract with JMM. How is that level playing field? There's too many inconsistencies with that whole family except JEFF MAY.

I would go the proper route and not spout my mouth off to the media... They are classless individuals, anyone not attached to floyds dong could see that.

while that may be true. the mayweathers action may not have been ethical classless as you say. I as many in the world would have paid him no mind. It was Pacs actions that caused the world to pay attention to Sr.'s words

[check hook]

12:10 am here............good night all............happy "debating"

[brick wall]

according to *****s pac beat old, shot, weight drained and past his prime fighters as he went up in weight...well, that's as far as criticizing his accomplishments as fighter of course. but when the topic is about peds, those same unimpressive wins becomes extraordinary and a cause of concern for possible peds use.

[dr.x]

ask IMAZED the self proclaimed peds expert head *****

you also when you say 14-day window is OK , you play the role of PEDs expert

[| THE KING |]

as soon as you take yours of. put that bobblehead as your avi it looks more like the real pac. you put photoshoped images where pacs head is smaller than in reality

LOL! green K cause you make me laugh

[IMDAZED]

Firstly this is not a thread intended to incite a ***** v ******* war. I am simply giving my opinion on the matter and putting it on the record so ppl know where i stand. I would appreciate some intelligent responses and/or rebuttals (i'm asking alot i know).


IMO....and it's not a popular one on here, i believe Pac is using EPO and HGH....or some combination of PED's. Their are various reasons why i believe this. Manny before moving to 135 had some wars with Morales, JMM and in his last few outings at that weight against various guys the wear and tear was starting to show.....and alot of guys (Jim Lampley being one) pointed this out......they thought his career was widing down....we are talking about a guy with 45+ fights who has been in ring wars.

Now Pac from early 2008 to the end of 2009 went from being a 130 pounder to a welterweight. This is a very short period of time. He did this whilst maintaining his speed and increasing his power, stamina and punch resistance. This is very very unusual for a fighter moving up multiple weight divisions over a long period of time.........but in this short a time frame it is damn near impossible. Before moving up one would say Pac had very good power. However i am suspect as to how a boxer who fought a fight at 130 pounds in March of 2008 and did not have devastating one punch KO power can seriously hurt natural welters who rehydrate to 160 plus with a single punch and how he can also consistently take multiple punches from them. Remember this is a guy who was rocked by JMM and Morales etc at 130 and he was hitting JMM alot and despite the KD's wasn't as powerful or as effective as he was against say Hatton and Cotto.

It may surprise people to learn Pac has a KO% of 68%. As a comparison Floyd Mayweather has a KO% of about 60% and SSM has about 74%. So we know he is a very good puncher, but this number hardly tells us that he could move from 130 to 147 in a little under 2 years and hurt naturally bigger men more than he was able to hurt 130 punders and below. Power may increase overall as you move up, but relative to the weight class you are in it tends to have less effect on the bigger men as you move up.

Floyd Mayweather as a comparison has been a welterweight for 5+ years and only recently has his body grown into the weight, after a stay at 135 that lasted 4 fights and 140 that lasted 3 fights.....in essence he has moved up slowly and gradually. He has slowed down considerably and his relative power has decreased....he isn't hurting or KOing bigger guys as easily as he did qith guys at 30, 35 or even 40. This is expected. He has also taken less wear and tear than Pac has. Pac grew into a ripped and full fledged welter from 130 pounds after only one fight at 135.......one......he also had a single fight at 140. So a guy who was in drag them out wars at 130 with the likes of JMM, Morales etc and who was looking worse for wear and had a hard time with Larios at 130 goes all the way up from 130 to 147 in under 2 years and is faster, stronger, hits harder and has increased punch resistance than he ever had?????

Now let me just say PED's are efffective when used in sports. You need to look no further than a Barry Bonds smash the MLB home run record......if i'm not mistaken the guys on the list right behind him, Sosa and McGwire broke the home run record set in 1961 were also admitted PED users. Bonds best years as a MLB player was prob from 2001 to 2004.......incidentally he was was subsequently indicted in 07 for perjury stemming from 03 grand jury proceedings in the BALCO affair......so his best seasons coincide directly with the timeline in whihc he was taking PED's. Marion Jones is another example of the effectiveness of PED's....there are many many more.


Now i could believe all of this............however this is a man who has rejected something as trivial and simple (and yes it is trivial and simple) as random OST to make the biggest fight in history happen and to also earn his biggest payday ever. After the news that OST was the impediment to this fight happening his team were one of the most incohenrent and incohesive units you could witness.......can you say panic anyone??? There was a bunch of lame and downright silly excuses given as to why nOST was a problem...these include:


- superstition
- Pac is afraid of needles
- Blood draining (weakens him)
- Floyd being bigger than Pac is a disadvantage if blood is drawn.
- Floyd is not the commission
- Drawing blood can cause injury


Now all of these reasons are ****** full stop. We have debated over and over on this site and we all know the arguments. Personally i have yet to see even a semi-convincing reason against better testing protocols in combat sports.....and no.....Floyd hurting Pac's feelings is not a reason.


Let's not forget Ariza's comments aswell, and also su****ions raised by other boxers aswell as Lou Dibella's comments on the peculiarities on how Pac's training camps are conducted. Fredie Roach has also trained numerous fighters in the past who have used PED's and Roach knew this. Now to top off this circus act Pac has filed a lawsuit against the Mayweathers claiming defemation of character....a move that has been done by others who have subsequently been found out.......from a boxing persepctive think SSM.


And let me just add further....if this was anyone else but Manny Pacquaio the media would be savaging this person......but for whatever reason everyone in the boxing media is a bit intoxicated with Pac right now, and i suspect that the fact these accusations came from Floyd Mayweather Jr don't help, given the media and boxing establishment can't handle a loud mouthed ****y black guy who calls his own shots.


On a final note the media and many fans may be siding with Pac right now, but 10 years from now when OST is the norm for all championship fights poeple are going to start to wonder why Pac was making such a fuss over something so simple.....and i believe if the fight doesn't happen as time goes on Floyd Mayweather Jr's legacy will be recognised as being greater than that of Manny Pacquaio's.

Damn check, I had to step away to see if anyone could respond to any of this. Nearly 30 pages and they couldn't.

[Frighteous]

check hook couple of questions:
what has manny pacquaio's weight been consistently the last few years?
have you ever boxed before?
how can HGH benifit a boxer?
which is more effiective detecting EPO urine or blood?
honest mk8 im a big floyd fan but its pathetic people like you which piss me off u choose to believe the garbage u write when by reading your post i doubt uve boxed a day in ur life or know anything about ped's and the human body.....please answer the above questions

whether or not check hook has boxed is irrelevant.

the man's stated his opinion and I agree with him. With guys like Victor Conte and Ariza, you don't need to explain why HGH can benefit a boxer because these guys have already figured it out and have put it all on pac..What pisses me off are the blind pacman nuthugging riceboys, who never cared about boxing before pacman, who come on the scene wearing their manny pacquaio line of clothing telling guys who have been fans of the sport for 20 years that floyd is a ducking *****,

(OMG REPORT FRIGHTEOUS HE CALLED ME A RICEBOI) who throw insults and pretend their man didn't juice

[BuckToothed]

I never said anything. I only asked you a question. Oscar weighed 147 when he fought manny, 7 lbs less than the fight before and a weight he hadn't made in years. It is possible he was weight drained?

Manny beat ODH and Hatton after they lost to floyd. That makes the statement true.

Again, you may disagree that is fine. Doesn't mean the statements wern't true.

Actually, ODLH fought Forbes at 150 catchweight before fighting Manny at 147. But yes, we was still weight drain as Manny came in the ring weighing more than him (a couple of lbs).

[The Big Dunn]

Back.. LOL!

Correct. Manny didnt take random OST 1 day before the fight. BUT, he did give blood 1 day before the fight, and felt it weakened him. There is a video interview taped BACK THEN of him saying that specifically. Him feeling weak is reason enough for him to feel that he may not be 100% for this fight. Isn't it about a level playing field?

Manny switches his reasons? He has maintained his stance on it weakening him.. period. Needles excuses came from arum or roach. Soo many damn people talking in mannys camp it's ridiculous.

It was a level playing field both he and morales got tested. I think he was just b!tching because he lost.

Switching reasons for not testing:

1. scared of needles (this was 1st and please dont deny it)
2. giving blood weakens him
3. not commissions rules
4. i wont be bullied

Yes there are too many voices from manny's camp. Honestly, I dont blame manny I blame Bob.

[Alibata]

Talk about being taken seriously. When will you reach the phase of questioning Pacquiao? That doesn't go for you, but all the other ******ed Pacquiao fans on here. I mean on the daily, you provide nothing.

I don't fall into the trap of discrediting people because my imagination cannot fathom a person being greater than the dude whose nuts is on my mouth.. that is why I ask you, who do you love? You really think you provide this forum with objectivity.. Your funny dude. You got your teeth sunk in those balls too tight man... What you trying to prove discrediting Pac.. That Floyd is the best? you gotta understand, *****s are on the offensive here with out proof and just hate... I don't need to provide this forum with **** because Im rich *****!!!