Dissecting the "Pacquiao must be on PEDs" argument

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

i dont see the need for cut off dates. olympic athletes dont have 14, 24, 30 day cut off dates. if u understand how ped work then u would understand why a user would want a specific amount of time were no testing will be done.

Exactly man.

24 days straight with no blood testing at all defeats the purpose of the OST's in the first place. Anyone with a functional brain can see that.

[Amazinger]

i didnt think manny was on ped or possibly using them until he turned down a career high payday because he did not want to get random blood test done

does that prove he is on ped just because he wont submit to the testing? NO!

but it does seem to make the argument that he is on them more logical and the argument that he is not using ped to seem very hollow

First of all you are comparing the two....If one is more logical the other should be logical ....not "very hollow"


saying that please enlighten us with your "more logical point of view".

[Eaner0919]

This is a myth.

Pacquiao was happy with 30 days before the fight and immediately after the fight, then compromised to 24 days before the fight for random blood tests. He did agree to random blood tests, but not 14 days before the fight as Mayweather demanded.

Not good points.

THIS is a myth

you know the ONLY reason Manny came down to 24 days right?

if not stop acting like you know ****.........

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

THIS is a myth

you know the ONLY reason Manny came down to 24 days right?

if not stop acting like you know ****.........

This......................

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

your logic is absurd. its like when somebody ask you a question and you don't want to answer it.

does that mean you don't have brain just because you won't give an answer? of course not, right?

the real issue here is that pac won't concede to floyd's demands because he is not the boxing commission.

So why did Pac agree to be tested then?

Also, why did Pac "act like the commission" and demand Cotto to weigh 145 pounds and put his belt on the line?

[Eaner0919]

your logic is absurd. its like when somebody ask you a question and you don't want to answer it.

does that mean you don't have brain just because you won't give an answer? of course not, right?

the real issue here is that pac won't concede to floyd's demands because he is not the boxing commission.

again with another bull**** statement

Manny can change the rules to fight for a title and that's okay?

[2120]

First of all you are comparing the two....If one is more logical the other should be logical ....not "very hollow"


saying that please enlighten us with your "more logical point of view".

no problem bud..

here it is

you could move pac and floyd from the equation and replace them with whoever you see fit.

for the sake of the argument i will replace them with valero and bradely (because its a fight i want to see) now both camps make their own demands for the fight to happen. one of them makes a request for random blood test and they both stand to make the highest payday in there career

and now if there is one who refuses to take random blood test even though he is clean. that fighter that is clean and refusing to take random blood test deserves all the criticism that comes with passing up on that payday.

because their is no logical argument for passing up on the biggest payday of your career over random blood test especially when you are clean.

the argument on who made the demand is neither here nor there.


this has nothing to do with pac or floyd and if your arguments why pac shouldnt take the random blood test because floyd is a douche and unlikeable (true facts) and who is he to make demands on pac and so on....

if those are your arguments than your arguments are weak because you will get no disagreement from me when you rip on floyd or go to town on him via photoshop (kfc floyd is my favorite) but that does not change the fact that pac is avoiding the random blood test

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

he agreed to the commision's rules. he tested 24 days before the fight for the hatton fight, right?



cotto agreed to fight pac at 145 with the title on the line. had cotto beleived that its a bs demand then he should have not fought pac.

24 days had nothing to do with the commission. Pac agreed to that because thats when he tested for his physical vs. Hatton.

[htown00]

The following is not hard information to come by if you do a bit of reading on Pacquiao.

Pacquiao turned pro at 16, and was a world champion at 19 years of age. He didn't "all of a sudden" become good. He first lost a fight at just 17 years of age, already having moved up from 108 to 112lbs. He stuck there until winning the WBC Flyweight title and losing it to a guy unbeaten in 18 fights - apparently he had trouble making weight. After his 2nd loss, he would move up two weight classes to 122lbs and he's still only 21 years old. (Many men do not stop growing until their early 20s, btw, physiology 101.) When he drew with Marquez it was documented at the time he was struggling to make 126lbs. Pacquiao steps up to 130lbs and his first fight is with Morales, which he loses. There is no shame in losing to Erik Morales and he came back to dominate the guy twice and effectively ruin him at 130lbs. He is struggling to make weight again for his final fight at 130lbs against Marquez, and then he goes through 135lbs via Diaz and 140lbs via Hatton for the glory division - the welterweights. Despite this, his actual weight is only a few pounds more on fight night than during his later 130lb days (see the graph on this ).

Mayweather makes his pro debut 4 months short of his 20th birthday. Whilst Mayweather is beating up bums (nothing wrong with that early in a career), Pacquiao is already a ring veteran, world champion, and had lost and would soon lose again. One fighter is guided by his team into the boxing world, the other fights his way to the top. Two different men, two different paths, nothing wrong with that. But Pacquiao wasn't some loser who became good due to drugs. Once an established fighter, he only lost once - to Morales. Pacquiao was a kid born in abject poverty, and he built himself from nothing. Mayweather was trained to be a pro boxer from his early years onwards. Not that I am suggesting early life was all gravy for Floyd but he was given a way into the sport by two ex-pro fighters (father, uncle) that Pacquiao just didn't have. Naturally, the filipino is rawer and made more mistakes early in his career.

Whilst we are on the subject of guys who lost early in their careers...

This guy, turns pro, loses in his first pro fight. He then goes on an unbeaten run, interrupted only by the best fighter of his generation, and defends a world title 20 times. Struggling to make weight, he jumps 2 divisions - from middleweight to light heavyweight. That was B-Hop. Drug user?

Here's another. This guy, he's a great prospect, but then loses to a veteran. He then goes on to unify the cruiserweight division and then beat the biggest heavyweight in history. David Haye... must be a drug user.

Or what about guys who go up the divisions?

There was this other guy. A lightweight, he would start at 118lbs, lose after about 30 fights at 140, then go on to beat one of the greatest fighters in history at 147, before winning titles at 154lbs. Total drug user that Roberto Duran.

Or this other guy. He debuted at welterweight (147), and goes on to fight up to 190lbs only losing 3 times on the way (two of whom are the best fighters of his generation) - Thomas Hearns. Drug user?

Fighters losing then going on to do well is not without precedent. Fighters going through the divisions is not without precedent.

So, you say, Pacquiao must be on drugs because he knocked out Hatton in 2 rounds. Well, Pacquiao and Mayweather are 2 different fighters. At that level Mayweather will never knock somebody out in 2 rounds - because he doesn't take risks. He picks his moment. Pacquiao was faster than Hatton, had filled out into 140lbs, and Hatton chose to defend with his chin. Pacquiao is a known ****er, has been his entire career. No surprise there (other than Hatton's tactics). Cotto - Mosley couldn't knock the guy out... but Margarito had. Pacquiao is more accurate, throws from more angles, and hits harder than Margarito (let's set aside cement glove accusations). Styles do make fights, and Cotto with his wide elbow defense was vulnerable to punches from a shorter guy who had the speed and footwork to get inside his jab.

The "must be PEDs" camp doesn't seem to use logic. There's no digging beneath the surface of the accusations. The reality is a fighter has come along and spoilt Mayweather's glory and unsettled the guy and his fans. I like both fighters, and I can't wait to see them fight because - for me - the victor will be one of the greatest fighters of all time.

(This is an edited version of that I made, but wanted to get a broader response to it.)

blah, blah, blah...the only reason why MOST people even Floyd fans suspect something may be up is how he handled the testing request. That's it...most people thought it was just a bs ploy when Sr first said it...

[htown00]

i didnt think manny was on ped or possibly using them until he turned down a career high payday because he did not want to get random blood test done

does that prove he is on ped just because he wont submit to the testing? NO!

but it does seem to make the argument that he is on them more logical and the argument that he is not using ped to seem very hollow

Didn't see this post at first...I would've just cosigned lol

ps. I don't see how this doesn't make sense to everyone