Mayweather-Pacquiao in Jeopardy Over Drug Test - Merged Thread:

[versatech]

Correct me if i'm wrong the mayweather's are asking for their own version of drug testing not Olympic style.Olympic style involves year -round random urine testing not blood testing.I guess this is where the confusion all about. I guess PAC's team felt they are being bullied around by the mayweathers by creating their version just to intimidate team PAC.

[madsweeney]

lol..I know man, its crazy!

they pac "fans" are something else man.

Yea, those crazy fans for getting upset about baseless accusations of roid use and unprecedented demands by Floyd.

[madsweeney]

Correct me if i'm wrong the mayweather's are asking for their own version of drug testing not Olympic style.Olympic style involves year -round random urine testing not blood testing.I guess this is where the confusion all about. I guess PAC's team felt they are being bullied around by the mayweathers by creating their version just to intimidate team PAC.

I think your right, I remember hearing about Phipps and some other atheletes volunteering for more extensive testing (which included the blood tests) that was no part of the normal testing procedure.

[Drunken Cat]

dude there is no smear. this is fact, they don't want to subject to random blood testing. they only want to take the blood test when they want to take it. If u dirty and have to take the test, then the best thing to do is dictate when the test should be taken. Is that what your saying?

so who is really ingenous? the guy willing and ready to make the fight happen by any means( he even agreed to a ridiculous 10M fee for coming overweight) or guy whose camp has been doing a whole bunch of crazy talk since the fight has been negoiated!


If the fight is being called off especially for somehting that would appear to be a non-issue...that's something u talk to the press about. This is news worthy, arguing about gloves not so much!

The smear is in the press release suggesting Pac. to be a doper.

Kind of funny how you consider unilaterally demanding unprecedented testing based on an unsubstantiated rumor propagated by Floyd Sr. to be being willing to accept a fight at any cost, but whatever. I think you'll just defend Floyd no matter what, and you probably have not really understood my arguments so to each their own I guess.

[WESS]

The smear is in the press release suggesting Pac. to be a doper.

Kind of funny how you consider unilaterally demanding unprecedented testing based on an unsubstantiated rumor propagated by Floyd Sr. to be being willing to accept a fight at any cost, but whatever. I think you'll just defend Floyd no matter what, and you probably have not really understood my arguments so to each their own I guess.

I see your arguments. I just dont blame the fighters themselves. Its Roach and Sr doing this BS. I dont hate on Roach for threating someones life by saying he wanted to beat Sr up. Just like I dont blame Sr for talking this roid BS. Its all to promote with the coaches getting personal. More so Roach. he always brings up personal issue with Sr. Sr just plays mind games as Jr does. Its expected I dont understand why people dont see it.

But like I said. They get paid enough so they need to shut up and color. This is for the better. I think fighters should be tested all year at random. Needles can effect fighters. I mean before Hoya fought Pac he had IV holes in his arm because of how zombiefied he was. But thats a different topic. My point I hope the testing sticks and continues to happen for ALL fighters. It would be nice to know. There should also be cameras when taping of the gloves is done.

[Drunken Cat]

The problem is very few of us were genuinely entertaining the idea that Manny Pacquiao was on steroids. Floyd Sr., Floyd Jr., Morrales, Barrera and Cotto could have all said they had 'doubts' and most of us would have still ignored it. Talk is talk.

Manny Pacquiao is now refusing to be blood tested, due to some bull**** excuse of being superstitious. For millions of dollars you can get over your superstition. All the talk of Manny being on performance enhancing drugs hasn't come from the Mayweather camps TALKING, it's come from the Pacquiao camps REFUSAL to take the tests. We can't attribute this all to Floyd and his people. Manny has to realize what refusing the tests is going to do.

Roach stated from the start that he wouldn't allow blood to be drawn within 30 days.

Floyd's side is just plucking strings and creating a narrative hear, and people such as your self are gobbling it up. It is not as if the Pac. side is blanketly refusing blood tests or random samplings (urine). It's more so that Floyd's side is making unprecedented demands based on a rumor, and using it to slander Pac. through the press. Hence Arum telling them to go to hell.

I tend to see this as typical back-and-forth negotiating bull****. The idea that the burden of proof is now on Manny as a result of Floyd's team spouting off with some rumors and then unyieldingly demanding an unprecedented level of testing, followed by writing slanderous pieces in the press, is unfounded in my opinion. I'm starting to sound like a broken record now (err.. starting to read like a book misprinted so that each chapter is the same? I say we need some new web-era metaphors for cases like this.)

[Drunken Cat]

I see your arguments. I just dont blame the fighters themselves. Its Roach and Sr doing this BS. I dont hate on Roach for threating someones life by saying he wanted to beat Sr up. Just like I dont blame Sr for talking this roid BS. Its all to promote with the coaches getting personal. More so Roach. he always brings up personal issue with Sr. Sr just plays mind games as Jr does. Its expected I dont understand why people dont see it.

But like I said. They get paid enough so they need to shut up and color. This is for the better. I think fighters should be tested all year at random. Needles can effect fighters. I mean before Hoya fought Pac he had IV holes in his arm because of how zombiefied he was. But thats a different topic. My point I hope the testing sticks and continues to happen for ALL fighters. It would be nice to know. There should also be cameras when taping of the gloves is done.

That wasn't directed at you, and I basically agree here.

Again, my main point of distaste is in what I consider a smear campaign from the Mayweather side, but as you say it's pretty typical nonetheless. I respect Floyd's talents in the ring, but outside of it it's a different story entirely. Floyd Sr. is a classless idiot imo (saying nothing of his prowess as a trainer or accomplishments in the ring, even if he wasn't a p4p champ in his day).

[Njord777]

Roach stated from the start that he wouldn't allow blood to be drawn within 30 days.

Floyd's side is just plucking strings and creating a narrative hear, and people such as your self are gobbling it up. It is not as if the Pac. side is blanketly refusing blood tests or random samplings (urine). It's more so that Floyd's side is making unprecedented demands based on a rumor, and using it to slander Pac. through the press. Hence Arum telling them to go to hell.

I tend to see this as typical back-and-forth negotiating bull****. The idea that the burden of proof is now on Manny as a result of Floyd's team spouting off with some rumors and then unyieldingly demanding an unprecedented level of testing, followed by writing slanderous pieces in the press, is unfounded in my opinion. I'm starting to sound like a broken record now (err.. starting to read like a book misprinted so that each chapter is the same? I say we need some new web-era metaphors for cases like this.)

The fact of the matter is, with the testing done the way Freddie Roach wants- in order to comply with Manny's 'fear'- performance enhancing substances could easily be used, and avoided in tests.

You fail to see that 'Olympic style testing' rests on the fact of RANDOM urine and blood tests up until the event. Random means you don't know when. If Roach can get them to stop testing a month prior to the fight, he has plenty of time for his fighter- should he be on steroids or perforamance enhancing drugs of any sort- to get it back into his system.

Further, I'm not sure I even believe Manny is on STEROIDS, rather, I feel it is possible, due to this refusal, he is on some banned substance.

Now, I hear people saying 'why isn't a test the day after the fight, or the night after the fight good enough?' I see you calling the suggested testing 'unprecedented'.

Well, let's say Manny Pacquiao was using EPO, shall we? Here:

World records in sports are broken by better athletes, better training methods, better nutrition or new drugs. Drugs appear to be the cause of many recent records in sports requiring strength and speed. Many bicycle racers know that some drugs that make them better riders can’t be detected by testing techniques that are available today. A recent study shows that laboratories have no definitive test to discover athletes who take erythropoietin (EPO), a drug to boost their red blood cell counts (Haematologica, August, 2006). Athletes have found that taking very low doses of EPO daily will raise red blood cell counts, and will not give test results high enough to show that they are taking extra EPO.

The primary limiting factor to how fast a person can ride a bicycle over long distances is the time it takes to move oxygen from the lungs into the muscles. So anything that increases oxygen transport from the lungs into the bloodstream, or carries more oxygen in the bloodstream, or moves oxygen faster from the blood into muscles will make a person a faster bicycle racer. Since more than 95 percent of the oxygen in the bloodstream is carried by hemoglobin in red blood cells, anything that increases the concentration of red blood cells will help a racer ride faster.

When healthy people do not get enough oxygen, their kidneys produce a hormone called EPO that causes the bone marrow to make more red blood cells. When athletes are given additional EPO, their red blood cell counts rise and their performance improves.

Doctors can do blood tests for EPO, but the hormone lasts only a few days in the bloodstream, so athletes who stop taking EPO several days before testing may not be caught. Some athletes tried to foil the test by adding pepsin, a chemical found in spot removers, to their urine samples. However this destroyed all of the EPO including their own natural EPO, so they failed the test because a person is supposed to have some EPO. The new study shows that athletes have now found a way to circumvent the test by taking very low doses of EPO every day.

For me, Manny just needs to take the tests to shut Floyd's camp up. It will erase all su****ions and, as always, I'll go back to being a fan of Pac's. Fact is, its not a baseless request if Pacquiao could, hypothetically, get away with doping under Roach's suggested "compromise".

There is no such thing as a compromise to Olympic style testing. The key element is the random testing, up until the fight. Not the 'we know there won't be tests for the final four weeks' or 'we won't be tested until after the fight'. That's not random, therefore it defeats the entire purpose.

I'm just saying, if an athlete in any other sport was asked to take these tests, and refused, there'd most likely be some problems if he didn't. Yet, because I like Manny, I should assume he's clean and not have a problem with no testing?

If the fight happens- fine. If these are negotiations- fine. But, for me, at this point in time- I feel the testing is justified if both parties are treated equally in regards to blood and urine sampling.

[Drunken Cat]

The fact of the matter is, with the testing done the way Freddie Roach wants- in order to comply with Manny's 'fear'- performance enhancing substances could easily be used, and avoided in tests.

You fail to see that 'Olympic style testing' rests on the fact of RANDOM urine and blood tests up until the event. Random means you don't know when. If Roach can get them to stop testing a month prior to the fight, he has plenty of time for his fighter- should he be on steroids or perforamance enhancing drugs of any sort- to get it back into his system.

Further, I'm not sure I even believe Manny is on STEROIDS, rather, I feel it is possible, due to this refusal, he is on some banned substance.

Now, I hear people saying 'why isn't a test the day after the fight, or the night after the fight good enough?' I see you calling the suggested testing 'unprecedented'.

Well, let's say Manny Pacquiao was using EPO, shall we? Here:

World records in sports are broken by better athletes, better training methods, better nutrition or new drugs. Drugs appear to be the cause of many recent records in sports requiring strength and speed. Many bicycle racers know that some drugs that make them better riders can’t be detected by testing techniques that are available today. A recent study shows that laboratories have no definitive test to discover athletes who take erythropoietin (EPO), a drug to boost their red blood cell counts (Haematologica, August, 2006). Athletes have found that taking very low doses of EPO daily will raise red blood cell counts, and will not give test results high enough to show that they are taking extra EPO.

The primary limiting factor to how fast a person can ride a bicycle over long distances is the time it takes to move oxygen from the lungs into the muscles. So anything that increases oxygen transport from the lungs into the bloodstream, or carries more oxygen in the bloodstream, or moves oxygen faster from the blood into muscles will make a person a faster bicycle racer. Since more than 95 percent of the oxygen in the bloodstream is carried by hemoglobin in red blood cells, anything that increases the concentration of red blood cells will help a racer ride faster.

When healthy people do not get enough oxygen, their kidneys produce a hormone called EPO that causes the bone marrow to make more red blood cells. When athletes are given additional EPO, their red blood cell counts rise and their performance improves.

Doctors can do blood tests for EPO, but the hormone lasts only a few days in the bloodstream, so athletes who stop taking EPO several days before testing may not be caught. Some athletes tried to foil the test by adding pepsin, a chemical found in spot removers, to their urine samples. However this destroyed all of the EPO including their own natural EPO, so they failed the test because a person is supposed to have some EPO. The new study shows that athletes have now found a way to circumvent the test by taking very low doses of EPO every day.

For me, Manny just needs to take the tests to shut Floyd's camp up. It will erase all su****ions and, as always, I'll go back to being a fan of Pac's. Fact is, its not a baseless request if Pacquiao could, hypothetically, get away with doping under Roach's suggested "compromise".

There is no such thing as a compromise to Olympic style testing. The key element is the random testing, up until the fight. Not the 'we know there won't be tests for the final four weeks' or 'we won't be tested until after the fight'. That's not random, therefore it defeats the entire purpose.

I'm just saying, if an athlete in any other sport was asked to take these tests, and refused, there'd most likely be some problems if he didn't. Yet, because I like Manny, I should assume he's clean and not have a problem with no testing?

If the fight happens- fine. If these are negotiations- fine. But, for me, at this point in time- I feel the testing is justified if both parties are treated equally in regards to blood and urine sampling.

It's not that I don't realize this, it's that I see it as a bull**** smear campaign. To each their own.

[Njord777]

It's not that I don't realize this, it's that I see it as a bull**** smear campaign. To each their own.

See, but if its a bull**** smear campaign kill it by taking the tests and being done.

I see the intelligence in your posts, I'm not saying you can't feel the way you do, but I don't agree with your logic that, because Manny hasn't been caught doping up to this point, asking for additional testing is baseless.

That would be like going back to the Mosley-Margarito fight and saying, because Antonio Margarito had never had problems with the illegality of his hand wraps before, that the intense scrutiny the Mosley camp put on him before the fight was baseless and without merit.

If you suspect something is foul, in a sport where two men engage in violent combat, it is extremely important to err on the side of caution. That's just the way it is.

You can't say, 'he's never been caught doping, so he must not be'.

I like Manny...but...this looks bad. EPO and other substances, and the way coaches and athletes get away with using them, seem to be very relevant to Roach's problems with this testing.