Garcia cleared!

[IronDanHamza]

Obviously they didn't see him take the supplement in real time to 100% confirm he consumed it. Thats probably never happened ever in the history of unintentional PED usage.

Precisely. That's why "unintentional usage" is a none starter from the get go if we are talking about what's actually demonstrably true.

I got no dog in this fight. But unintentional usage happens & how I stated it goes down is the minimum ik they do & I'm sure there is more to it than simply believing everything is good after that initial protocol is done.

Yeah, me neither.

And yes unintentional usage happens all the time. However it is literally impossible to prove unless you test that example supplement that they took. Not another random one of the same brand, that proves literally nothing.

And again this don't matter cuz Ryan can't confirm anything. A testing agency needs to do this in their way. No one is gonna or should believe the guy who popped dirty saying it was unintentional so this is much ado about nothing til that process goes down via a 3rd party dealing with this situation.

Well yeah, again a (broken) system issue. That's their system, I don't much care for it. None of it means anything and they pick and chose when these things even apply. So it's neither here nor there.

I'm talking about the actual reality of the situation.

[TheProudLunatic]

Mismatches are much worse than roider vs clean guy.

Mismatches made Mike Tyson a household name.

[Eff Pandas]

Precisely. That's why "unintentional usage" is a none starter from the get go if we are talking about what's actually demonstrably true.



Yeah, me neither.

And yes unintentional usage happens all the time. However it is literally impossible to prove unless you test that example supplement that they took. Not another random one of the same brand, that proves literally nothing.



Well yeah, again a (broken) system issue. That's their system, I don't much care for it. None of it means anything and they pick and chose when these things even apply. So it's neither here nor there.

I'm talking about the actual reality of the situation.

Your nihilism on this subject is unique I'll give you that.

I just think you need some kind of protocol to determine intentional or unintentional usage that is impossible to be 100% accurate, but has enough checks & balances to be right more often than wrong. I think it'd be worse to punish all ppl equally & not take into account ones intentions as best as you reasonably can.

You want to punish those who are intentionally trying to take something for an edge more severely. You want to punish those who did something stoopid less.

And look the rules IN the ring are often flawed. All judges are rarely unflawed on any particular show. Nothing is gonna be 100% perfect. All you can do is keep making things better & I think PED sh^t has a long way to go to be on par with other sports but its moving in the right direction.

[SUBZER0ED]

Did Garcia also come to the weigh-in unintentionally 3.2 lbs overweight with a beer in his hand?

[STREET CLEANER]

They would have to prove the one he took. This will be entangled for a long time since Garcia has money and influence. If he doesn't fight many don't make money that he brings in so they will facilitate items to fight the charge.

He can throw doubt in the mix but that is not proof. This drama will sell

[IronDanHamza]

Your nihilism on this subject is unique I'll give you that.

I just think you need some kind of protocol to determine intentional or unintentional usage that is impossible to be 100% accurate, but has enough checks & balances to be right more often than wrong. I think it'd be worse to punish all ppl equally & not take into account ones intentions as best as you reasonably can.

You want to punish those who are intentionally trying to take something for an edge more severely. You want to punish those who did something stoopid less.

And look the rules IN the ring are often flawed. All judges are rarely unflawed on any particular show. Nothing is gonna be 100% perfect. All you can do is keep making things better & I think PED sh^t has a long way to go to be on par with other sports but its moving in the right direction.

I am a Nihilst, wasn't sure if you were aware of that or not and that's why you said it.

This conversation has nothing to do with a Nihilistic perspective and entirely to do with what's demonstrably true and the reality of the situation. It's not unique at all, it's again just the actual reality of it.

My personal stance, from an expert perspective, is if you are a caught with PED's in your system, you should be banned, because there is no excuse what so ever in 2024 to pop for them.

Does contamination happen? Yes, it certainly does. We know that the supplement industry is rife with contamination. However #1 it can never be demonstrably proven as previously explained so it's a moot point from there and #2 there is a very easy way to avoid it; Don't take over the counter supplements, extremely simple. It blows my mind that athletes at that level still do, the risk reward ratio is ridiculously lop sided.

Either way, it's neither here nor there. The NYSAC will weigh the evidence and make their call. Whatever their call is, it really doesn't matter to the reality of the situation which is it proves absolutely nothing in regards to whether Garcia intentionally used PED's or not, only he will know that and only he ever will.

[Eff Pandas]

My personal stance, from an expert perspective, is if you are a caught with PED's in your system, you should be banned, because there is no excuse what so ever in 2024 to pop for them.

Couldn't disagree more. But I think there should be more severe punishments & especially if caught a second time. I wouldn't be opposed to a ban upon a second offense.

Does contamination happen? Yes, it certainly does. We know that the supplement industry is rife with contamination. However #1 it can never be demonstrably proven as previously explained so it's a moot point from there and #2 there is a very easy way to avoid it; Don't take over the counter supplements, extremely simple. It blows my mind that athletes at that level still do, the risk reward ratio is ridiculously lop sided.

This sounds good, but its a fantasy to think you can get all your needed nutrients, vitamins & etc purely from food while in camp. Ppl are gonna need some supplements to get to their optimal level.

Should boxers be more careful? Obviously. Are boxers who'll do insane sh^t to make weight & are in a deadly life altering sport likely to be careful with things like this? Probably not.

You gotta be reality based & meet ppl where they are to some degree. Again things can be improved & they are moving that way, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

[champion4ever]

If this is not the damnedest thing I've ever seen? That link was bullshit! This doesn't exonerate Ryan Garcia one damn bit or any damn way! He still has to answer for popping dirty for Ostarine and PED use when he stands before the NYSAC. It's just more typical made up bullshit by Team Ryan Garcia and his fan girls.

[IronDanHamza]

Couldn't disagree more. But I think there should be more severe punishments & especially if caught a second time. I wouldn't be opposed to a ban upon a second offense.

Couldn't disagree more with what? Banning a fighter for popping for PEDs?

This sounds good, but its a fantasy to think you can get all your needed nutrients, vitamins & etc purely from food while in camp. Ppl are gonna need some supplements to get to their optimal level.

Should boxers be more careful? Obviously. Are boxers who'll do insane sh^t to make weight & are in a deadly life altering sport likely to be careful with things like this? Probably not.

You gotta be reality based & meet ppl where they are to some degree. Again things can be improved & they are moving that way, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

Why on Earth would you possibly think that is a fantasy idea? It objectively is not.

Over the counter supplements are not necessarry for optimal performance. In fact they're often not even ideal depending on what you're buying.

I take them, and I tell my untested guys to take them, sure, they have a place (mostly convenience realistically). But if you're tested? Why anyone would take anything from over the counter is BAFFLING.

Like I said, the risk/reward ratio is staggering. With what we know about supplement contamination it is totally illogical for a tested athlete to even consider it.

[billeau2]

I am a Nihilst, wasn't sure if you were aware of that or not and that's why you said it.

This conversation has nothing to do with a Nihilistic perspective and entirely to do with what's demonstrably true and the reality of the situation. It's not unique at all, it's again just the actual reality of it.

My personal stance, from an expert perspective, is if you are a caught with PED's in your system, you should be banned, because there is no excuse what so ever in 2024 to pop for them.

Does contamination happen? Yes, it certainly does. We know that the supplement industry is rife with contamination. However #1 it can never be demonstrably proven as previously explained so it's a moot point from there and #2 there is a very easy way to avoid it; Don't take over the counter supplements, extremely simple. It blows my mind that athletes at that level still do, the risk reward ratio is ridiculously lop sided.

Either way, it's neither here nor there. The NYSAC will weigh the evidence and make their call. Whatever their call is, it really doesn't matter to the reality of the situation which is it proves absolutely nothing in regards to whether Garcia intentionally used PED's or not, only he will know that and only he ever will.

Yes... Why would a professional athlete with the resources to spare buy a supplement over the counter to take this risk? It really makes no sense at all. And it is true that some things cannot be proven.

Actually technically speaking David Hume proved that the Sun coming up in the morning does not demonstrate it will come up the next day lol. Most people think a scientific explanation shows why the Sun will rise when in fact, the only way we know we will come up again is the probability is high that it will. The science comes after the fact.

Often people are not aware of when something simply cannot be proven. Like a negative is another one that cannot be proven. I.e, prove God does not exist.

Athletes just need to be aware. Professionals do things in a manner that cuts down on risk.