Calzaghe: "Kessler is Better Than Pavlik, and I Beat Him"

[Rkicards]

Pavlik ain't proved anything yet, If he loses to Hopkins he's done,
We know about Pavlik weakness is a glass chin, something that won't improve. Two bums Fulgencio Zúñiga and Bronco McKart knocked him down in 2006, he's already been down in his short career more times than Calzaghe amd Hopkins combined.

[Clegg]

what?? I didn't see them if you directed than many at me, what would you like me to answer?

are you trying to tell me that the delusions of Calzaghe having a solid record are true? don't bother trying to argue that someone like Kessler is better than Pavlik, Kessler never beat anyone so how would you know?

Well I judge how good someone is by looking at their performances, not just looking at boxrec, so this allows me to form opinions based upon things such as ability.

As for their records, let's take the example of the guy in your avatar, Rid**** Bowe. He beat a prime Holyfield twice. Most people consider Evander to be a top 10/15 heavyweight.

Rid**** Bowe:
*Beat an ATG prime heavyweight twice. No other boxer has ever done that
*Only defeat is to an ATG
*Held the WBA, IBF, WBC (and afterwards) WBO titles. Lewis only held 3 of those.

Joe Louis
*No wins over top 10/15 heavyweights
*Was KO'd by a past-prime Schmelling (Bowe lost a close decision to prime Holyfield)
*Won the title from someone with 27 defeats
*Lost the title to a blown up light heavyweight

So therefore, Joe Louis has not shown himself to be as good as Rid**** Bowe, has he?


Anyway, if you want to see my responses that you ignored, check back on almost any Calzaghe thread that we've both posted in. Here's a post of yours from another thread that I'll respond to here so that you won't miss it. This is regarding a Calzaghe-Pavlik match-up:

Look at Cotto vs Margerito, Cotto is the better boxer, he's faster too - but once Margerito starts landing all that goes out the window.

The problem with this comparison is that Cotto was winning rounds and was landing the better shots, but he got tired. Because of this, he slowed down, he got hit more, and he got beaten. Calzaghe has never slowed down. He went toe-to-toe with Kessler in the 12th, almost KO'd Lacy in the 12th, and was still full of energy at the end of the Hopkins fight.

Saying Joe Calzaghe is elusive would be comical

Perhaps, but no one has said it, so let's move on.

he may have fast hands but that's only because he puts nothing behind them.

The actual speed difference isn't big

No...it is. I mean, you're denying something that's right in front of your face here. Furthermore, speed isn't just how fast your hands move. Calzaghe has much better footspeed as well and superior movement.

Joe just throws shorter punches and allows him to throw them in volume

You haven't read your Calzaghe-haters handbook. The official line is that all of Calzaghe's punches are wide and looping, not short.

[BennyST]

At the end of the day Pavlik is the recognized mw champion of the world. He came up and defeated the former champ to get his titles. Kessler fought the recognized smw champion and was handily beaten. He lost when stepping up while Pavlik seized his titles by ktfo. Speculate all you want as to how good kessler is, but he truth is that he lost to the man of his division, and Pavlik beat the man. Nothing can change that, and Kessler choked when he stepped on to the big stage.

Well, I don't know about choked as such. He actually fought very well and did about everything he possibly could. He was quite simply overmatched though. He had fought on some very large occasions previously, so I don't think he really fell into any pressure at all. His fights against Beyer in Germany and Mundine in Aus were big fights especially against Beyer, and he didn't choke in either. He mixed it up well and changed gears and fought like a man possessed going into the twelfth and all through it, but, he just didn't have what it takes to beat Calzaghe. Well, no one has so far.

While I am not defending what Calzaghe is saying at all, and I would really like to see him fight Pavlik, you have to admit that this is exactly what happened previous to the Lacy and Kessler fights. The whole boxing world was crying about Calzaghe the ducker/*****/runner/whatever.

It really wouldn't change if he did fight Pavlik. No doubt he probably will after Jones, if he wins. Though you really can't fault him for not fighting Pavlik over Jones. Would you rather fight a ring legend and get two, three or four times as much cash or fight a young guy, who if you beat would become just another win that was against an untested young, inexperienced fighter?

Just relax on all the bitching fellas (not directed at you Mel). I think you'll find that he will fight Pavlik after Jones if he wins well. That is a big if though! I think he is getting too old personally. Pavlik has enough on his plate anyway. I personally think that Pavlik is ducking AA......












j/k

[Monticello]

He can assume all he wants, but until we see these 2 get in the ring, we won't know for sure.

[jeff41514]

kessler who

i know kesslers name and thats it, i know he lost badly to joe calslappy, who has this kessler beat, nobody, and who ever says pavlic has a glass chin is ******ed has pavlic been koed nope or really been that seriosly hurt, i think the most i ever seen pavlic hurt was the 1st fight with taylor and he came back to ko taylor, that shows a champions heart

[BattlingNelson]

Well, I don't know about choked as such. He actually fought very well and did about everything he possibly could. He was quite simply overmatched though. He had fought on some very large occasions previously, so I don't think he really fell into any pressure at all. His fights against Beyer in Germany and Mundine in Aus were big fights especially against Beyer, and he didn't choke in either. He mixed it up well and changed gears and fought like a man possessed going into the twelfth and all through it, but, he just didn't have what it takes to beat Calzaghe. Well, no one has so far.

While I am not defending what Calzaghe is saying at all, and I would really like to see him fight Pavlik, you have to admit that this is exactly what happened previous to the Lacy and Kessler fights. The whole boxing world was crying about Calzaghe the ducker/*****/runner/whatever.

It really wouldn't change if he did fight Pavlik. No doubt he probably will after Jones, if he wins. Though you really can't fault him for not fighting Pavlik over Jones. Would you rather fight a ring legend and get two, three or four times as much cash or fight a young guy, who if you beat would become just another win that was against an untested young, inexperienced fighter?

Just relax on all the bitching fellas (not directed at you Mel). I think you'll find that he will fight Pavlik after Jones if he wins well. That is a big if though! I think he is getting too old personally. Pavlik has enough on his plate anyway. I personally think that Pavlik is ducking AA......












j/k

Nice response. Don't forget that Kessler didn't spar in the lead-up to the fight because of a broken right hand. He fought 12 with a broken hand, that was surgically repaired afterwards. That makes his performance more commendable.

A slight error in the post is that the Beyer fight was not fought in Germany but in Copenhagen, Denmark. The Mundine fight was indeed in OZ. Kessler again fought injured having a severe back-strain that had him going at 70-80%.

[BattlingNelson]

Well I judge how good someone is by looking at their performances, not just looking at boxrec, so this allows me to form opinions based upon things such as ability.

As for their records, let's take the example of the guy in your avatar, Rid**** Bowe. He beat a prime Holyfield twice. Most people consider Evander to be a top 10/15 heavyweight.

Rid**** Bowe:
*Beat an ATG prime heavyweight twice. No other boxer has ever done that
*Only defeat is to an ATG
*Held the WBA, IBF, WBC (and afterwards) WBO titles. Lewis only held 3 of those.

Joe Louis
*No wins over top 10/15 heavyweights
*Was KO'd by a past-prime Schmelling (Bowe lost a close decision to prime Holyfield)
*Won the title from someone with 27 defeats
*Lost the title to a blown up light heavyweight

So therefore, Joe Louis has not shown himself to be as good as Rid**** Bowe, has he?


Anyway, if you want to see my responses that you ignored, check back on almost any Calzaghe thread that we've both posted in. Here's a post of yours from another thread that I'll respond to here so that you won't miss it. This is regarding a Calzaghe-Pavlik match-up:



The problem with this comparison is that Cotto was winning rounds and was landing the better shots, but he got tired. Because of this, he slowed down, he got hit more, and he got beaten. Calzaghe has never slowed down. He went toe-to-toe with Kessler in the 12th, almost KO'd Lacy in the 12th, and was still full of energy at the end of the Hopkins fight.



Perhaps, but no one has said it, so let's move on.








No...it is. I mean, you're denying something that's right in front of your face here. Furthermore, speed isn't just how fast your hands move. Calzaghe has much better footspeed as well and superior movement.



You haven't read your Calzaghe-haters handbook. The official line is that all of Calzaghe's punches are wide and looping, not short.

Hmm. I look forward to see Them_apples reply to this.

[Stickman]

I think a Calzaghe fight would be the worst career move possible for Pavlik right now. Calzaghe is too smart, too fast, and too experienced and it would end similar to the Calzaghe/Kessler fight. Additionally, while a Pavlik fight would look great on the last page of Calzaghe's resume, the Jones fight will make Joe an assload more cash than a Pavlik fight will right now, and though we may not like it, it is the best career move for Calzaghe. Still, I think that if Pavlik stays undefeated to the middle of next year, and the Jones fight goes well for Calzaghe, we'll probably see the Calzaghe/Pavlik fight many are hoping for. Personally, though, I'd prefer to see Pavlik against Kessler. That would be a fantastic matchup.

Anybody that thinks Calzaghe is ducking Pavlik isn't thinking realistically about Calzaghe's career. He's nearing the end of his time and wants another big paycheck, the biggest in his career, and I can't blame him. I'd do the same. If you think boxing isn't mostly about money, you're living in fairyland.

[abadger]

i know kesslers name and thats it, i know he lost badly to joe calslappy, who has this kessler beat, nobody, and who ever says pavlic has a glass chin is ******ed has pavlic been koed nope or really been that seriosly hurt, i think the most i ever seen pavlic hurt was the 1st fight with taylor and he came back to ko taylor, that shows a champions heart

Hilarious.

[El Dominicano]

Not just that but anyone would have gone down from all those hooks Taylor landed on Pavlik. Taylor caught him GOOD and not just once it was like 5 straight hooks...if I remember correctly