Taylor to fight Mora on 14th April 2007

[Pantera2000]

I heard Taylor vs Mora is not close to happening. Nothing more than a thought at this point. Good chance it won't.

[El Jesus]

I agree with you that Skill > Power, and there is no doubt Hopkins x2 and then Winky is an incredible string of opposition, but think about this for a second...

First, alot of people (including me) see Taylor as 0-3 in those fights. Others see it as 0-2-1, and a few see it as 0-1-2. Add all those up and you have close to a majority who feels Taylor did not win any of those fights. I would say a majority definitely didn't see him winning more than one (the Hopkins rematch) of the three fights.

Second, people are all about praising Taylor for choosing this list of opposition. He didn't. He was given the first Hopkins fight, an offer from Golden Boy and Hopkins that he HAD to take because he wasn't going to get another chance to take the lineal middleweight championship. Yes, some credit is deserved for taking the challenge of a legend while still developing, but after the Eastman fight, alot of people thought Hopkins was ripe for the picking (particularly for Taylor's strong, aggressive style). Taylor was the HOT prospect in boxing, he just demolished Edouard on that Hopkins-Eastman undercard and he looked very strong.

We all know HBO didn't like Hopkins and they LOVED (and still do, though not as much seemingly) Taylor. DiBella knows his stuff, and he surely advised Taylor that taking the fight and just being busy enough and throwing "showier" puches (thanks, Lamps) would be enough to get the nod from the judges and of course the unabashed favoritism from the announcers. They (DiBella, Taylor and HBO) knew Hopkins wouldn't knock him out and they THOUGHT (wrongly) that he couldn't hurt Taylor. It was a risk they had to take.

The rematch was enforced due to the clause in the contract. It was a better performance from Taylor, and less controversial, but many still had Hopkins winning the fight or a draw.

The Winky fight was also forced on Taylor by the WBC. After the controversies with Hopkins, the last thing Taylor could do is duck Winky. He needed credibility. Again, credit to him for doing it, some 'champions' don't do this kind of thing, they just talk out both sides of their mouth. They have promoters like Don King who buy undeserving mandatories so his fighters don't ever HAVE to take these tough fights. More credit to DiBella for not doing this.

(As an aside, I am not the biggest DiBella fan, but he seems more willing to put his guys in with other promoters' top guys without having the audacity to ask for options or other 'perks'. Think about how easily the Quartey-Forrest, Ouma-Powell, Winky-Quartey and Cotto-Malignaggi and even Green-Codrington fights were made.)

The Winky fight was another example of Team Taylor feeling all they needed to do was throw punches and look busier and bust up Winky's high guard. After all, here was another smaller fighter, and Taylor was used to fighting small guys; he could bully him around and win on pure strength. Well, that almost worked, and throwing hard punches at Winky's guard looked good at times because even though they weren't landing, they were moving the smaller Winky. "Showier" again. It looked better than the Hopkins fights because Winky was ducking and dodging like Hopkins did, he just withstood the blows by actually using his arms to block them. But judges see what they want and they gave Taylor every benefit of the doubt, just enough to get a draw. How can you look at the way the two fighters reacted to this decision and not know that Winky knew he won and Taylor knew he was lucky to get the draw.

He was LIFTED UP IN CELEBRATION for crying out loud. Has that ever happened after a draw before?!?!

So, Taylor will always have his doubters. I am one, I freely admit, but until he makes me say 'wow', like I expected him to vs. Ouma, I won't be swayed. Ouma was an acceptable fight, and Mora, for the exposure, is also acceptable, but after this, he better be thinking along the lines of Calzaghe/Winky II/Miranda/Abraham for opponents because otherwise he will be trying to hide behind his 2 'wins' against Hopkins and his draw against Wright. And that's another thing, people act like Taylor won that fight, because he got the favorable decision, but don't forget the favorable decision for Taylor that night was a draw. There are very, very few people who think he beat Winky that night. And please, no one mention the 12th round, Winky didn't run, he moved forward for all but the last 15 seconds or so, and then lunged in with a nice straight left hand with a few seconds left.

Whew, well I got a little long-winded but I hope you can see my point. I am not one of those guys who just says 'Taylor is garbage, a paper champion'. If I just disliked Taylor, I would do that, but I want him to show me that he can get a big, uncontroversial, impressive win. It hasn't happened yet, but he's still young, and he has a list of big names against whom he could shine if he ever put it all together in the ring. I want to see him try.

I understand what you are saying, but you have to admit, that at any point, he could easily shy away from such defenses if he felt the need. You can say it was his team, you can say whatever, but how often do you see a guy take on top 5 p4p in consecutive fights? In all honesty, im not big on Taylor neither, infact...now that i think about it, i dont even care about the middleweight division really, but a fight against mora, i think its my own personal vendetta against Mora, i just dont like the guy, and i wanna see him get KTFO just like Litzau did. But i agree with alot of what you said for the most part, i thought wright won the fight also. There is nothing to warrant me to argue against what you said, so i wouldnt worry about any opposition from myself.

[!! $iN]

Are you nuts?!
Winky has turned down the fight numerous times!
Hes asking for more money than he can be given.
get your facts straight.

I know Winky's turned it down, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he's the most deserving challenger right now. He should get 50/50 too since the fight was a draw, more people thought Winky won (shown on many polls), and Taylor just last week proved he isn't much more of a draw in his hometown than Winky is. I think Winky drew a couple thousand more fans actually...

[cdsimple]

I agree with you that Skill > Power, and there is no doubt Hopkins x2 and then Winky is an incredible string of opposition, but think about this for a second...

First, alot of people (including me) see Taylor as 0-3 in those fights. Others see it as 0-2-1, and a few see it as 0-1-2. Add all those up and you have close to a majority who feels Taylor did not win any of those fights. I would say a majority definitely didn't see him winning more than one (the Hopkins rematch) of the three fights.

Second, people are all about praising Taylor for choosing this list of opposition. He didn't. He was given the first Hopkins fight, an offer from Golden Boy and Hopkins that he HAD to take because he wasn't going to get another chance to take the lineal middleweight championship. Yes, some credit is deserved for taking the challenge of a legend while still developing, but after the Eastman fight, alot of people thought Hopkins was ripe for the picking (particularly for Taylor's strong, aggressive style). Taylor was the HOT prospect in boxing, he just demolished Edouard on that Hopkins-Eastman undercard and he looked very strong.

We all know HBO didn't like Hopkins and they LOVED (and still do, though not as much seemingly) Taylor. DiBella knows his stuff, and he surely advised Taylor that taking the fight and just being busy enough and throwing "showier" puches (thanks, Lamps) would be enough to get the nod from the judges and of course the unabashed favoritism from the announcers. They (DiBella, Taylor and HBO) knew Hopkins wouldn't knock him out and they THOUGHT (wrongly) that he couldn't hurt Taylor. It was a risk they had to take.

The rematch was enforced due to the clause in the contract. It was a better performance from Taylor, and less controversial, but many still had Hopkins winning the fight or a draw.

The Winky fight was also forced on Taylor by the WBC. After the controversies with Hopkins, the last thing Taylor could do is duck Winky. He needed credibility. Again, credit to him for doing it, some 'champions' don't do this kind of thing, they just talk out both sides of their mouth. They have promoters like Don King who buy undeserving mandatories so his fighters don't ever HAVE to take these tough fights. More credit to DiBella for not doing this.

(As an aside, I am not the biggest DiBella fan, but he seems more willing to put his guys in with other promoters' top guys without having the audacity to ask for options or other 'perks'. Think about how easily the Quartey-Forrest, Ouma-Powell, Winky-Quartey and Cotto-Malignaggi and even Green-Codrington fights were made.)

The Winky fight was another example of Team Taylor feeling all they needed to do was throw punches and look busier and bust up Winky's high guard. After all, here was another smaller fighter, and Taylor was used to fighting small guys; he could bully him around and win on pure strength. Well, that almost worked, and throwing hard punches at Winky's guard looked good at times because even though they weren't landing, they were moving the smaller Winky. "Showier" again. It looked better than the Hopkins fights because Winky was ducking and dodging like Hopkins did, he just withstood the blows by actually using his arms to block them. But judges see what they want and they gave Taylor every benefit of the doubt, just enough to get a draw. How can you look at the way the two fighters reacted to this decision and not know that Winky knew he won and Taylor knew he was lucky to get the draw.

He was LIFTED UP IN CELEBRATION for crying out loud. Has that ever happened after a draw before?!?!

So, Taylor will always have his doubters. I am one, I freely admit, but until he makes me say 'wow', like I expected him to vs. Ouma, I won't be swayed. Ouma was an acceptable fight, and Mora, for the exposure, is also acceptable, but after this, he better be thinking along the lines of Calzaghe/Winky II/Miranda/Abraham for opponents because otherwise he will be trying to hide behind his 2 'wins' against Hopkins and his draw against Wright. And that's another thing, people act like Taylor won that fight, because he got the favorable decision, but don't forget the favorable decision for Taylor that night was a draw. There are very, very few people who think he beat Winky that night. And please, no one mention the 12th round, Winky didn't run, he moved forward for all but the last 15 seconds or so, and then lunged in with a nice straight left hand with a few seconds left.

Whew, well I got a little long-winded but I hope you can see my point. I am not one of those guys who just says 'Taylor is garbage, a paper champion'. If I just disliked Taylor, I would do that, but I want him to show me that he can get a big, uncontroversial, impressive win. It hasn't happened yet, but he's still young, and he has a list of big names against whom he could shine if he ever put it all together in the ring. I want to see him try.

You make good points, but regardless if people think JT is 0-3 in those fights, he isnt, and you cant objectively say that any of those fights could go decisively to either fighter. Even if you think JT lost his fights with Bhop you still have to give him credit for making it that close, especially after Bhop moved up and humiliated Tarver. I cant see any fighter today winning decisively over Bhop, hell I dont know if any fighter from the past could win decisively over Bhop. The same with Winky, JT gave winky the toughest fight I have seen him have since he was a youngster.

JT's potential is limitless imo, it just comes down to if he is willing to develope his awesome raw athletic ability into something special.

[GunStar]

I heard Taylor vs Mora is not close to happening. Nothing more than a thought at this point. Good chance it won't.

I don't think Taylor himself wants to fight Mora but his promoter's will try to make this fight, I hope Taylor fights Miranda next, so I can have some fun with you after the fight!

[-Hyperion-]

I Think Taylor-mora Is Avery Good Fight, Imean, Jt Deserves A Little Break And Then Return To The Big Dogs(miranda Abraham,calzaghe, Kessler...), But I Dont Think Mora Will Be As Easy As It Seems, Maybe Winning Some Rounds, I Mean Mora Has Said When He Lost To Taylor In The Olympic Trials He Had Just Sustained A Back Injury In His Previous Fight When He Was Wrestled Down By Sechew Powell(who Was Desqualified), And Jt Said Mora Was A Though Fight For Him..., Dont Know, I Have A Felling Jt Will Win Clearly But Not Easily.

[Easy-E]

Pavlik has 10 more fights and 26 more stoppages than Mora. Even Uoma has 5 more fights and 11 more stoppages than Mora.

Okay, let's get desperate and go to the lower division. Marco Antonio Rubio, a light middleweight, floored Uoma before losing by Split D. Then, KD'd Baysangurov in the first round before losing in a fight in the Ukraine. But he has stopped 31 opponents in 35 victories. And, I won't even bet on him beating Taylor.

Rubio can't help pull in the crowds. That can be the the primary consideration. But can Mora do better? Perhaps his "Contender" stint can help. But, by how much?

What is Taylor doing fighting a guy who has had only 19 fights, five of them in fights that were not scheduled in the way that usual fights are because they were in a "reality show"? And, Mora has only 4 stoppages to his credit.

Even someone named Amin Asikainen has a much better record: undefeated in 19 fights with 14 KOs. The Fin (he fights out of Finland) may not have faced "quality opposition". But, seriously, has Mora done better? The pre-Roach Manfredo? Smith whose best win post-"Contender" was against a late sub? Brinkley who has won only one of three fights after co-starring in that "reality show"?

Speaking of Asikainen: anyone who says European fighters are inferior may have to remind themselves that Europeans rule the Heavyweight class and a European with a pedestrian name like Joe did what he did to Lacy. Asikainen may not be a Calzaghe, but I cannot think of him as a Mora either.

If a fighter named Archak can knock down Mora in the second round before becoming Mora's 4th and final TKO victim, can we truthfully expect Mora to give Taylor a fight worthy of PPV? Is a victory against Mora a boost to Jermaine's IBHOF bid?

I said this earlier in this thread: I am not killing myself with cardiac over Taylor-Mora; I'll take it, given that Jermaine has had three consecutive close ones in Hopkins I and II as well as Winky. The Uoma fight is something I understood: even past greats were given relatively easy ones after tough ones. But, Taylor and his crew should give us better ones after Mora. Much, much better ones.

Pavlik wants absolutly no part of Taylor.
He has been taking the path of least resistance.
Its not about your record or KO percentage, its about who your fight. In this case, its also about how popular you are, and Mora is more popular than any other fighter Taylor could face right now.
Like I said, Im OK with this fight AS LONG as it leads to a big clash between Taylor and Winky or Joe.

[Easy-E]

I know Winky's turned it down, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he's the most deserving challenger right now. He should get 50/50 too since the fight was a draw, more people thought Winky won (shown on many polls), and Taylor just last week proved he isn't much more of a draw in his hometown than Winky is. I think Winky drew a couple thousand more fans actually...

Winky is challenging to Undisputed Champ, and there offeting 55-45.
Its not like there asking for 70-30 or anything.
Winky doesnt have a big fanbase, and is the CHALLENGER.
He has NO reason not to take this fight unless he is scared he will get beaten.

[Sttuddahboy619]

Mora by K.O. rd.1

[uppercut_84]

Winky is challenging to Undisputed Champ, and there offeting 55-45.
Its not like there asking for 70-30 or anything.
Winky doesnt have a big fanbase, and is the CHALLENGER.
He has NO reason not to take this fight unless he is scared he will get beaten.

Winky was going to get around $5 million, he should quit his bitching about not getting the respect he deserves and should have accepted the offer.