Top Ten "Gypsy" Fighters definition to follow

[billeau2]

Lists are hard...Some of you guys do amazing things with them. This is for you, and anyone else who wants a bit of a "list" challenge.

I use the term Gypsy for fighters that never settled in a division, but won across divisions. Any guy who you have to question if they were in a particular division, but was a great fighter is fair game. Someone like Archie Moore, Toney,Langford. It gets tricky with guys like Hopkins who were great middle weights, but had a legit run after... But they are not the same as guys like the original Joe Walcott (not jersey Joe Walcott) who won from light weight to Heavy weight...

This should be interesting if anyone wants to play... I will try to put together a list myself.

[DeeMoney]

Like the idea, I'll try here and come up with some- though I am sure I will forget a few. I'm leaving off some guys like Hearns, Duran, Leonard, who moved and got lots of big wins in different classes, but I felt had a defined weight class where they were mostly at.

1) Henry Armstrong: A title in 3 different weight class at once, when there were only 8. 1st name that came to mind

2) Sam Langford: I think talk of him is what led you to this, he bounced around from MW to heavy all the time

3) Manny Pacquiao: belts in 8 classes (granted there are more now) but started as a fly and has belts up to welter.

4)Mickey Walker: Probably did his best work at MW, but lot of good time at welter, mixed in wins over light heavy champs while still at welter, and competed well at heavy!

5) Oscar De La Hoya: Dude just moved up through the weights with success at all, but never stayed long enough at one to have a peak primary class

6) Barbados Walcott: Don't know if it was more indicative of the time, but he fought for the welter strap & against heavies in the same year. Though he seemed himself to always be about a welter

7) Floyd Mayweather: Similar to Oscar, though he seemed to have settled down more at WW. That being written I think his best was at a lighter weight.

8) Roy Jones Jr: Great work at MW, SMW, LHW, and got a belt at heavy. Probably best at 168, but really a nomad through those weights (similar to Toney).

9) Barney Ross: Pretty good balance between Light, JWW, and welter. Cant pick a spot for him

10) Canelo Alvarez: I know it still early, and he did most of his early work at JMW, but then a bit at MW/Canelo weight, picked off a LHW, and now at 168

There were a few guys who split time between classes that I thought of too (Griffith, SRR, etc). But those are the top 10 nomads off the top of my head.

[Marchegiano]

Now this, this is difficult. I've spent too much time with the pre-body eras and not enough with the early body eras.

That said, I will do my best.

1 - RJJ for me. Roy Jones is really a class act telling folks he merely tied Fitzs. People like to discredit the once, ever, period, achievement Roy gained on his way from MW to HW with an ATG run at LHW in between because the x2 HW champion he defeated is not a well received champion. But, I say John Ruiz was active and Corbett was not. John Ruiz beat a faded great just as Corbett had. Ruiz is a x2 while Corbett is a single, I mean Ruiz had success after Roy and Corbett really had very little after Fitzs. Ruiz had a much bigger size advantage than Corbett. Ruiz is from a truly global era where as Jim was from the era of US-first boxing which was really just USA with a splash of BE. So, I think Ruiz is a respectable win for any MW to beat. I rate the wins as about equal, I'd agree Corbett is the more prestigious HW but when they fought and such considered I reckon the wins themselves about equal. However, what, for me, makes Roy's run better than Bob's is Roy had to gain the minimal weight to fight at HW. It was 190 then, he weighed 193, just above minimum. Before anyone asks, yes, you can technically have an underweight fight above their weight, but, it's illegal in America, and, it can't be for a title. Bob was able to win his crown weighing in his middleweight weight. He did not have to learn how to move and fight as a heavier man, he just had to beat the heavier man. Same is true for all the early small HWs and such. Mendoza is one of my favorite champions period, all of history includes, but, his ass was a 155er pretty much his entire career, LW, WW, MW, HW, still a little guy. I believe Roy's run is the most difficult and will probably stand alone longest.

2 - Fitzsimmons - Ruby Robert has his own form of wait a min this historical achievement of his is actually better than I was told. Everyone knows Fitzs won the HW title with a clean KO, but, he actually won it twice. I'm really not sure why the splinter lineage started by Corbett's retirement is not recognized as a legitimate and equal or why Tom Sharkey carries the fixed fight Wyatt Erp legacy which I had fallen for myself. Corbett did nothing out of the norm for pre-body boxers. You only have to look to the vacancies left before him in the BK era and the vacancy handled by Jeffries fro the exact same course of post-champ retirement actions. Jem Ward did it and there is no issue, Jeffries did it and there is no issue. I've heard but Steven and Peter were not good enough HWs, that is exactly what the IBRO told me. However, it'd be difficult to make a list of active top ten HW from then without those two names. RJJ beat a good active HW. Fitzs beat two great HWs of his era for the title both by KO. Even if we call his first title pretense now it wasn't billed as an alternative title, it wasn't fought for over unknown or loser HWs. Two very good clean KOs over two top tier HWs, both times for the championship. ****ing well done blacksmith.

3 - Floyd Mayweather - I know I'll catch **** for this but I think Floyd's is the hardest career with the least losses in boxing history. You can see records with longer win streaks, but, that's against easier competition. You can see records with better 1-5 1-10 resumes but to go 24(?)-0 against former or current champions should be respected. People say but he didn't fight them at their best. That's true enough but what's also true is he did not pad his record like the SRs or even Fitzs above. Padding for Floyd is guys like Berto, far from a debut. Not just 50-0, 50-0 and half were champions.

4 Barbados Walcott - Dude was tiny and had success from the 140s(?) to HW. Anyman able to draw or best Choynski, Langford, Gans, Dobbs, O'Brien, and Creedon while picking up WW honors and only stopped by Frank Childs, a big and hard hitting HW, because he broke his arm, has to be respected.

5 - Henry Armstrong - I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Armstrong is the only man who will ever reign over multiple divisions at once. I know guys get to hold titles but isn't it once a defense comes up they're stripped? Anyway, you have to respect Armstrong being king of the smallers entirely alone and for a considerable stretch.

6 - Sam Langford - The only reason we say Sam isn't a champion is because boxing history does these magnificent leaps in logic. Today we have official and lineal and that's pretty much it. Then they had body and lineal and that was it. For some reason today a WBA-Regular gets you on lists like Boxrec's for WBA champions without any notation of the difference between say Pov's version of WBA HW champion and Ali's, however, Langford can't get a break with his body belts and resides only in lists of sad almosts. WBA reg is appreciated by no fans. BBBoC was an official World title. But times has changed and this isn't just upholding historical racism in the modern era.

7 - Tommy Hearns - Could be wrong on this but out of Hearns, Hagler, SRL, and Duran it'd be Tommy who tried the most weight divisions, had most success against current or former champions, gathered more belts and had more titled defenses? I mean Hagler, duh, just lised him cause his name flows with the rest tbh. The other two I'd have to research to be sure. Hearns had a super impressive career and there's not much more to be asked of him by the end.

8- Ray Leonard - Naturally, if I respect Hearns' run then you have to Leonard's too. h2h he proved superior but in terms of multi-weight he really say on WW quite a bit. These two can be switched, seen as equal, whatever. I had a hard time with them. I do not feel like what they did is more impressive than anyone above them, but, to one another it's about equal.

9 - Kid McCoy - The originator of the corkscrew, just look at Kid's 1900 run: Creedon, Maher, Choynski, Ryan. Two top ten HWs, the absolute best MW, and one of the greatest LHWs ever. It should be noted McCoy beat Ryan and then the decision was overturned. Anyway, though he lost to Corbett in that year I do believe his 1900 run is p4p one of the best single years ever put together by any Gypsy Champion.

10 - Kid Norfolk - Greb, Flowers, Jeanette, Tate, Clark, Miske. He took out ATG MWs and ATG HWs. I'm just going to c/p from Kevin Smith's article on him: one of the few fighter's whose record speaks for itself. He was 5-0 against world champions and he beat every good black fighter (who many of the white contenders would not face), of his time. His only un-avenged losses during his prime were against Hall of Famers Sam Langford and Harry Wills. He defeated both Harry Greb and Billy Miske twice and he knocked out George Godfrey in 4 rounds.

Welp, I made ten. Tried not to repeat others too much and still make a logical case for my guys.

SRR, IMO, may be GOAT, but, he's a MW who once held WW. Not really a Gypsy champion.

[DeeMoney]

[COLOR="Indigo"]Now this, this is difficult. I've spent too much time with the pre-body eras and not enough with the early body eras.

That said, I will do my best.

1 - RJJ for me. Roy Jones is really a class act telling folks he merely tied Fitzs. People like to discredit the once, ever, period, achievement Roy gained on his way from MW to HW with an ATG run at LHW in between because the x2 HW champion he defeated is not a well received champion. But, I say John Ruiz was active and Corbett was not. John Ruiz beat a faded great just as Corbett had. Ruiz is a x2 while Corbett is a single, I mean Ruiz had success after Roy and Corbett really had very little after Fitzs. Ruiz had a much bigger size advantage than Corbett. Ruiz is from a truly global era where as Jim was from the era of US-first boxing which was really just USA with a splash of BE. So, I think Ruiz is a respectable win for any MW to beat. I rate the wins as about equal, I'd agree Corbett is the more prestigious HW but when they fought and such considered I reckon the wins themselves about equal. However, what, for me, makes Roy's run better than Bob's is Roy had to gain the minimal weight to fight at HW. It was 190 then, he weighed 193, just above minimum. Before anyone asks, yes, you can technically have an underweight fight above their weight, but, it's illegal in America, and, it can't be for a title. Bob was able to win his crown weighing in his middleweight weight. He did not have to learn how to move and fight as a heavier man, he just had to beat the heavier man. Same is true for all the early small HWs and such. Mendoza is one of my favorite champions period, all of history includes, but, his ass was a 155er pretty much his entire career, LW, WW, MW, HW, still a little guy. I believe Roy's run is the most difficult and will probably stand alone longest.

2- Fitzsimmons - **** boys I'm out of time. I'll complete mine soon as I get the chance.

Dang, cant believe i forgot about Fitz. He deserves to be up there

[drablj]

well for the majority of langford's and fitzsimmons' careers hw was 160+ pounds. middleweight to heavyweight was a ONE division jump. it's a four division jump now (since ~1988. really). it's not the same. and bob's official weight was 167 pounds which was hw at the time. what roy did was harder to achieve. i just wanted to remind everybody of these facts. all of them were very great.

[billeau2]

Dang, cant believe i forgot about Fitz. He deserves to be up there

I bet that happens a lot with this lol. People will be like damn, forgot about him! lol.

[billeau2]

well for the majority of langford's and fitzsimmons' careers hw was 160+ pounds. middleweight to heavyweight was a ONE division jump. it's a four division jump now (since ~1988. really). it's not the same. and bob's official weight was 167 pounds which was hw at the time. what roy did was harder to achieve. i just wanted to remind everybody of these facts. all of them were very great.

And this is a point that needs to be made. One has to think if a fighter was truly a weight division gypsy, or maybe fought in few divisions. There is a difference.

[billeau2]

ok here is my first crack, a work in progress... a lot of work, not much progress...

1. Barbados Joe Walcott. Guy fought in all divisions and was a champion in many of them.

2. Gene Tunney. Forever will be scuttled as either one of the greatest heavyweights, or the absolute best Light heavy. But wasn't Grebb primarily a Middle weight? and beating Grebb means another division yet for the fighting Marine.

3. Sam Langford, fought them all, on any given day.

4.Archie Moore. fought everything from middle weight to heavyweight, stood out in no particular division, managed the most KO's

5.

Thats as far as I have gotten so far.

[Anthony342]

Isn't Tyson Fury a gypsy or from a gypsy family? Thought I read that somewhere. And if so, should he be included on the list?

[The Old LefHook]

Isn't Tyson Fury a gypsy or from a gypsy family? Thought I read that somewhere. And if so, should he be included on the list?

I hear he used to fight as a featherweight too, by burka