Who would you say impacated boxing more Dempsey or Jack Johnson?

[edgarg]

- -Rump a lifelong Dem part of the ***** muskateer trio of Epstein, Billy Slick, and Prince Andrew, so of course he IDed with JJOHNSON.

***** a lawyer with wife and two young daughters could not in good faith to his family pardon JJ. And he conferred heavily with his black attorney General.

Poor Epstein, Rump knew him well...Billy Shakes...

Your post has surprised me indeed.

I just looked it up, although I already knew the details.. He was a ********** for 12 years, and Independent for 2, a ******** for 8 and a ********** for the last 11 years. that is 23 years as ********** and 8 years ar a ********. That connection with the Island *****philes is bunk, although he may well have "knew him well". We have no concept of the boundaries of those in the upper spheres of business magnates, and billionaire-hood. Like the vast majority of men, his healthy interest is in WOMEN. He had delivered far more election promises than the past 6 Presidents put together. He had donated to both parties, to candidates with whom he was friendly, not because of their politics..

I don't say this as a ***** supporter but a fact giver. If you are interested and want to open a separate email address I can send you a deep, peer reviewed essay showing the Campaign Promises fulfilled -and many more not even thought of at the time. The Johnson pardon isn't even a blip. I read it just yesterday. I get much of my info from documented sources,. .

I am a born Irishman and am living for many year sin Canada, never in the US for more than passing through at airports. I have NO axe to grind.

We may think differently- which I have just now discovered- but we are on good terms nevertheless.

[edgarg]

Glad to see you back edgarg.

Hello Battler old friend. So pleased to hear from you. I've been meaning to drop you a line and of course being now old and forgetful, neglected to do it, for which I apologise. There are still a few of the old posters around, but nearly all my boxing scene "friends" are now not posting.

I see many top quality posters now, and I missed the give and take on boxing that I've been so involved in, all my life. So here I am again, in my same annoying self, and already in a "difference of opinion", political, not boxing...but amicable. Let it continue in that manner.....!!

[QueensburyRules]

Your post has surprised me indeed.

I just looked it up, although I already knew the details.. He was a ********** for 12 years, and Independent for 2, a ******** for 8 and a ********** for the last 11 years. that is 23 years as ********** and 8 years ar a ********. That connection with the Island *****philes is bunk, although he may well have "knew him well". We have no concept of the boundaries of those in the upper spheres of business magnates, and billionaire-hood. Like the vast majority of men, his healthy interest is in WOMEN. He had delivered far more election promises than the past 6 Presidents put together. He had donated to both parties, to candidates with whom he was friendly, not because of their politics..

I don't say this as a ***** supporter but a fact giver. If you are interested and want to open a separate email address I can send you a deep, peer reviewed essay showing the Campaign Promises fulfilled -and many more not even thought of at the time. The Johnson pardon isn't even a blip. I read it just yesterday. I get much of my info from documented sources,. .

I am a born Irishman and am living for many year sin Canada, never in the US for more than passing through at airports. I have NO axe to grind.

We may think differently- which I have just now discovered- but we are on good terms nevertheless.

- -Everyone thinks differently from me, and that's fine until politic tears it's ugly head.

Then we got a problem.

And thanks for the sordid detail offer, but no thanks. Don't need sordid details to know that those people have always existed.

Prob being after unrecorded previous 10s of thousands of years of the bravest men dying in combat, what we are left with the preponderance of conniving cowards passing on their genes.

We can even see it in modern American boxing as the run and stink style pervades.

Btw, in the American civil war, well to do conscripted NYers were allowed to transfer their conscription to new Irish immigrants for an agreed price.

[edgarg]

- -Everyone thinks differently from me, and that's fine until politic tears it's ugly head.

Then we got a problem.

And thanks for the sordid detail offer, but no thanks. Don't need sordid details to know that those people have always existed.

Prob being after unrecorded previous 10s of thousands of years of the bravest men dying in combat, what we are left with the preponderance of conniving cowards passing on their genes.

We can even see it in modern American boxing as the run and stink style pervades.

Btw, in the American civil war, well to do conscripted NYers were allowed to transfer their conscription to new Irish immigrants for an agreed price.

Yes I know about the Union "upper-class" soldiers being able to
"buy themselves out" with substitutes, not only of Irish but all ethnicities -except black.. (I have a deep Civil War collection), and this had been in practice in other armies too. I think it was only for rank and file, that officers could resign their commissions, but it would ruin their reputations if done just before expected hostilities or difficult/dangerous duties arising..

I don't know what sordid details you mean, I wasn't offering you any such thing. I wouldn't even read such stuff..

[edgarg]

- -Everyone thinks differently from me, and that's fine until politic tears it's ugly head.

Then we got a problem.

And thanks for the sordid detail offer, but no thanks. Don't need sordid details to know that those people have always existed.

Prob being after unrecorded previous 10s of thousands of years of the bravest men dying in combat, what we are left with the preponderance of conniving cowards passing on their genes.

We can even see it in modern American boxing as the run and stink style pervades.

Btw, in the American civil war, well to do conscripted NYers were allowed to transfer their conscription to new Irish immigrants for an agreed price.

Your puzzling post has mentioned an interesting point of view on which I have some details I have garnered. It's to do with the advancement of the Human Race.

There are two interesting points. The first says that people, began to have vision difficulties as soon as reading was invented. That man, being an animal, and living in the trees, and hunting game etc, was very "far-sighted". and when he had to strain his eyes to see written items held at no further away than arm's length, it began to affect his eyesight. I find this an interesting theory, with much to commend about it.

The second one is that the Human Race began to deteriorate as soon as The ***ish Torah became known, and people stopped placing their unwanted and variously deformed children or adults on the hillsides for the wild animals to make short work of. That many of inferior mentality that were saved to marry and procreate, actually cause the degeneration on Humanity. As we know, this is not really true, because there have been many brilliant scholars , inventors, and benefactors to the Human Race, who, in those past eras would never have been allowed to live..

But......personally, very many years ago, I had a young married couple as neighbours, although I never knew them, saw them only once or twice. When I knocked to welcome them, they didn't answer the door, although they were inside.. They had a most beautiful baby, about 2 years old, most beautiful, and spotlessly clean, who would be placed every day on a rug in the garden surrounded by toys. But he would just look at them and never move, nor crawl, nor do any playing with them. One night maybe 1.a.m I answered a knock at my door, there was the wife, half crazy, with her baby, pushing the poor kid into my arms whilst shouting that the spirits had ordered her to give him to me to look after.

I quieted her down after a while and sent her home. But I reported it to the Health Authorities. They told me that the couple were State Wards of low mentality, the poor, beautiful child was a helpless autistic.(the first time I'd ever heard of autism) Later enquiries over the next few years, after they moved away, showed that they'd had another 3 children all similar to the first. All wards of the State.

I still think about them.

[billeau2]

Your puzzling post has mentioned an interesting point of view on which I have some details I have garnered. It's to do with the advancement of the Human Race.

There are two interesting points. The first says that people, began to have vision difficulties as soon as reading was invented. That man, being an animal, and living in the trees, and hunting game etc, was very "far-sighted". and when he had to strain his eyes to see written items held at no further away than arm's length, it began to affect his eyesight. I find this an interesting theory, with much to commend about it.

The second one is that the Human Race began to deteriorate as soon as The ***ish Torah became known, and people stopped placing their unwanted and variously deformed children or adults on the hillsides for the wild animals to make short work of. That many of inferior mentality that were saved to marry and procreate, actually cause the degeneration on Humanity. As we know, this is not really true, because there have been many brilliant scholars , inventors, and benefactors to the Human Race, who, in those past eras would never have been allowed to live..

But......personally, very many years ago, I had a young married couple as neighbours, although I never knew them, saw them only once or twice. When I knocked to welcome them, they didn't answer the door, although they were inside.. They had a most beautiful baby, about 2 years old, most beautiful, and spotlessly clean, who would be placed every day on a rug in the garden surrounded by toys. But he would just look at them and never move, nor crawl, nor do any playing with them. One night maybe 1.a.m I answered a knock at my door, there was the wife, half crazy, with her baby, pushing the poor kid into my arms whilst shouting that the spirits had ordered her to give him to me to look after.

I quieted her down after a while and sent her home. But I reported it to the Health Authorities. They told me that the couple were State Wards of low mentality, the poor, beautiful child was a helpless autistic.(the first time I'd ever heard of autism) Later enquiries over the next few years, after they moved away, showed that they'd had another 3 children all similar to the first. All wards of the State.

I still think about them.

I had an experience like that once... will never forget it. Was doing an appraisal in California, this woman in concord...she was trying to get a house refinanced. Upon entering I hear screams and there are three kids really acting crazy. Come to find out that the poor woman, had these kids, the husband could not take it so ran off, leaving her to support the kids. She was refinancing to support the kids. It was awful, the woman must not have gotten any sleep ever, the kids were really low functioning.

[edgarg]

I had an experience like that once... will never forget it. Was doing an appraisal in California, this woman in concord...she was trying to get a house refinanced. Upon entering I hear screams and there are three kids really acting crazy. Come to find out that the poor woman, had these kids, the husband could not take it so ran off, leaving her to support the kids. She was refinancing to support the kids. It was awful, the woman must not have gotten any sleep ever, the kids were really low functioning.

You know Billeau, it is tragedies like these, REAL tragedies that make most other even important things to be as little or nothing. To be in this world is so often very cruel, and we, the lucky ones, can do nothing abut it, but close our eyes and ears, and argue about matters that in the scheme of things, really are nothing more than rubbish. But they serve a good purpose, because it keeps us from going crazy with pity and self reproach. And life still goes on.

At one period I had a music store for a number of years, and I often got strange characters coming in. Some of the strangest were "saved" by the Salvation Army which had a Home nearby.. They never bought anything, but liked to come and chat with me. I always accommodated them. The "spirit" often flowed in them and we would discuss our respective religions amicably. I found out how much it "flowed" when one day, the most pious of the lot came in as drunk as an Irish fiddler. I had a hell of a time with him, because we had become sort of friendly. And I was in the middle of a coupe of fairly large deals. Eventually I had to phone their office and someone came for him. I donated to that Organisation for years after.

Another time a woman came in, with a half opened umbrella which was completely covered in scriptural sayings. She was dragging a little kid maybe 3 years old". and would pull his arm very cruelly, shouting "Say the lords prayer"..."say the lords prayer". I squatted down and tried to talk to the poor kid, but he was just terrified,. How did he grow up, I wonder.

There are wonderful people who devote their whole lives to helping those who don't even know they're being helped. It takes a VERY special person, and I'm sorry to say that I'm not one of them.

Religion, of one creed or another, when kept within bounds, is often a great help, although it is but a palliative. It was the Great Napoleon who said something like..... "The priests invented religion, because otherwise the poor would tear the rich to pieces".

The ***ish New Year began tonight.

[QueensburyRules]

Yes I know about the Union "upper-class" soldiers being able to
"buy themselves out" with substitutes, not only of Irish but all ethnicities -except black.. (I have a deep Civil War collection), and this had been in practice in other armies too. I think it was only for rank and file, that officers could resign their commissions, but it would ruin their reputations if done just before expected hostilities or difficult/dangerous duties arising..

I don't know what sordid details you mean, I wasn't offering you any such thing. I wouldn't even read such stuff..

- -They were so sordid you offered to mail to my in box.

The 2-3 x Rump ran for minor office it was as a ********. Not surprised at the early Rep years but had no idea he'd switched back.

As an Irish born Canadian, why do you bother studying US elections? Seems pointless to me.

[Rusty Tromboni]

P.S. Indecently Dempsey's wraps have a very modern look to them; I have said before I think he had an advantage over Willard, because properly wraps hands brings more power.

This.


Dempsey changed Boxing tremendously. Having wrapped, secured hands permits harder and busier punching. From here he was able to modify his stance to one less natural, but better for generating punching power and overwhelming offense.

I remember how Tank Abbot changed MMA when he arrived with gloves. He wasn't a particularly accomplished Wrestler, and I am not sure if he was ever a licensed amateur Boxer... I think he just liked to **** around in a Boxing gym like most of us. He was well past his physical prime and in horrible, horrible physical condition, despite being fairly fit. Still, he became a feared puncher because... well, he was the only guy that punched. With any confidence and commitment that is. Then Vitor Belfort arrived. Remember him? He had a mostly invented Jujitsu pedigree and wasn't even an accomplished Boxer, but he was destroying everyone because he was also comfortable letting his hands go.

Obviously Tank and Belfort had sufficient grappling ability that they could rely on their Boxing experience, however limited. While much better strikers couldn't even hope to utilize to utilize their skills because of a lack of grappling experience. But these guys had protected hands, so they weren't the only ones who knew how to punch, they were also the only ones who could throw punches without the risk of sustaining serious injury. Needless to say, the use of of wearing gloves and wrapping hands has taken off.

Hands happen to be effective for punching, but that's not really what they are made for. The forehead, elbows, knees and shins are all far less likely to be injured when used to generate damaging force - they're just less accurate. Dempsey's style was perfectly fitted for an era when Boxing had mostly culled the use of anything other than fists. Now Boxers really were Boxers first, not fighters who happened to be Boxing. Elbows, headbutts, grappling... most of this had been mostly cleaned up from Boxing.

If you look at fighters in MMA today they don't stand at all like modern Boxers not simply to prevent being takendown, but because the modern Boxing stance (customized for straight hard punching) is completely ineffectual in a real fight. You don't really need to be a very good striker at all to knock out a great Boxer, because there are simply tools better for winning fights than throwing really hard, fast straight punches. And I say that with full acknowledgement that hard, accurate punching is still the best way to end a fight in MMA.


I know that's a bit of a rant, and all facts YOU already know. But I think it perfectly illustrates the reality of your comment.

Unless folks can come forward with an example of the tape that DeForrest used, I don't give the argument much merit. It doesn't any meaningful rule was broken. And ultimately, we all know that it wasn't cuts that stopped Willard, and that the structural damage to Willard's face inflicted by Dempsey's punches had been grossly exaggerated. Willard lost because he was out of shape and Dempsey had insane punching power, handspeed and volume. It was witnessed in other fights where no allegations of tampering have ever been made.

If we wanna talk about smelling salts saving Ali against Cooper, OK. That's a conversation worth our time. But trying to make anything out of DeForrest's latter recollections, and failure to properly detail his comment, is simply a cry for attention.

[billeau2]

You know Billeau, it is tragedies like these, REAL tragedies that make most other even important things to be as little or nothing. To be in this world is so often very cruel, and we, the lucky ones, can do nothing abut it, but close our eyes and ears, and argue about matters that in the scheme of things, really are nothing more than rubbish. But they serve a good purpose, because it keeps us from going crazy with pity and self reproach. And life still goes on.

At one period I had a music store for a number of years, and I often got strange characters coming in. Some of the strangest were "saved" by the Salvation Army which had a Home nearby.. They never bought anything, but liked to come and chat with me. I always accommodated them. The "spirit" often flowed in them and we would discuss our respective religions amicably. I found out how much it "flowed" when one day, the most pious of the lot came in as drunk as an Irish fiddler. I had a hell of a time with him, because we had become sort of friendly. And I was in the middle of a coupe of fairly large deals. Eventually I had to phone their office and someone came for him. I donated to that Organisation for years after.

Another time a woman came in, with a half opened umbrella which was completely covered in scriptural sayings. She was dragging a little kid maybe 3 years old". and would pull his arm very cruelly, shouting "Say the lords prayer"..."say the lords prayer". I squatted down and tried to talk to the poor kid, but he was just terrified,. How did he grow up, I wonder.

There are wonderful people who devote their whole lives to helping those who don't even know they're being helped. It takes a VERY special person, and I'm sorry to say that I'm not one of them.

Religion, of one creed or another, when kept within bounds, is often a great help, although it is but a palliative. It was the Great Napoleon who said something like..... "The priests invented religion, because otherwise the poor would tear the rich to pieces".

The ***ish New Year began tonight.

Doing our part in our own way, visa vis, keeping our yard clean, so to speak... In your case, being approachable to individuals who most often were avoided at all costs... It makes a difference. It just seems at times that the difference it makes is not significant. I guess I would attribute that to all of us having to walk our own path... And when we see a person with a tough road/path to walk, we see them/their path in it's entirety. We don't see how "having a conversation in a music shop" really makes much of a difference, to a person with many chronic problems...

Yet put oneself in that person's position and it might look different: that conversation might mean a lot. That person may look at it as a real important event. In my case, I try to do for others with that in mind, namely that a little help at key moments might make a difference. Giving twenty dollars to a neighborhood friend who looks after a family when it means keeping the lights on... I mean it is only twenty bucks, but having utilities in the winter? means a lot.