Who would you say impacated boxing more Dempsey or Jack Johnson?

[billeau2]

It's clear to me what happened. His trainer said he wrapped his hands the same way he wrapped Kid McCoy's hands. It's not a coincidence that an article long before this fight exposed what Kid McCoy's wraps were like, and tell the SAME EXACT TALE. And mind you, the trainer mentioned what he did IN DEFENSE OF DEMPSEY.

So unless they planted this years before just to hate on Demp

If it makes GhostofForgery cry, then even better

San Francisco Call, Volume 107, Number 117, 27 March 1910 -- TRICKS OF THE TRADE OF PRIZE FIGHTERS

The best response to this information was given by Willie Pep, and I respect him tremendously for it:

I was trying to be tongue in cheek... Lol. I don't remember the original issue... So to speak on it would be premature.

[billeau2]

Sam McVeigh and Joe Jeanette made the BIG DOLLARS amount of $6,000 between them for the Coloured Title, in Paris, and paid all their own expenses.. , Some of you fellows don't pay enough attention to that period. In the US, there was literally NO interest in watching 2 Black fighters, unless they were going to literally kill one another. Not for the top prize in Boxing. They always had to make the fights long ones, so that the customers got "value for their money", or else they wouldn't come.

Johnson was all about 2 things. Pride, judging by the way he lived, and rubbed white noses in it, and MONEY. He NEEDED money more than anything else. He wanted and lived a high style, part of his Pride. He pioneered taking and selling movies of fights, and tried to have all his fights filmed, because of the profits. The US Govt. still seething because it was a black man who won the title and thumbed his nose a everyone, forbade filming of some of the fights and confiscated others.

As for Sam Langford, there wasn't enough money in it for Johnson to fight him. People came to see a white boxer beat him. Besides, when he fought Langford for the coloured title, admittedly 30 odd lbs heavier, he almost killed him even though he was taking it easy.. He held him up several times to prevent him from going down, wanting him to finish the fight, even talking to him. He KD'd him 3 times. He did the same with Ketchell, it was a common practice for him. He played games in the ring, talked to spectators all the time, because he knew he was unbeatable and could do anything. He held the Coloured World Title for about 6-7 years made 17 defences, (nobody else made more than 3, except Harry Wills-25 ) and gave it up when he beat Tommy Burns. He fought many black fighters multiple times'The best, Sam McVeigh 3 times and Joe Jeanette 7-8 times. He was afraid of nobody.

PS. Tony GE says there were race riots when he won the title, (and more when he beat Jeffries). There were about 20 people killed in those riots, and multi millions of property destroyed . Something like the *** stuff today in the ********ic ruled states ..

Very informative... Your analysis is backed up by many other contingencies. Among them, The very *******, socialist minded, working class hero of strevedores everywhere... Jack London, was a stone cold racist who hated Johnson and set the stage with his pronouncements about the "White Race" (and eventually bugged jeffries, by all accounts a decent sort, to come out of retirement) to give people motive to watch Jack fight: Which was to see him beat.

[billeau2]

I've read that Benny Leonard was the first superstar. Of course the Heavyweight title was THE Title.

It seems illogical but that fact, imo looms large. History is lined with incredible fighters who even occasionally fought heavyweight, but were not heavyweights... Guys like the original Barbados Joe Walcott. But America demanded that a heavyweight bare the dialectic of change upon their shoulders lol.

[QueensburyRules]

Sam McVeigh and Joe Jeanette made the BIG DOLLARS amount of $6,000 between them for the Coloured Title, in Paris, and paid all their own expenses.. , Some of you fellows don't pay enough attention to that period. In the US, there was literally NO interest in watching 2 Black fighters, unless they were going to literally kill one another. Not for the top prize in Boxing. They always had to make the fights long ones, so that the customers got "value for their money", or else they wouldn't come.

Johnson was all about 2 things. Pride, judging by the way he lived, and rubbed white noses in it, and MONEY. He NEEDED money more than anything else. He wanted and lived a high style, part of his Pride. He pioneered taking and selling movies of fights, and tried to have all his fights filmed, because of the profits. The US Govt. still seething because it was a black man who won the title and thumbed his nose a everyone, forbade filming of some of the fights and confiscated others.

As for Sam Langford, there wasn't enough money in it for Johnson to fight him. People came to see a white boxer beat him. Besides, when he fought Langford for the coloured title, admittedly 30 odd lbs heavier, he almost killed him even though he was taking it easy.. He held him up several times to prevent him from going down, wanting him to finish the fight, even talking to him. He KD'd him 3 times. He did the same with Ketchell, it was a common practice for him. He played games in the ring, talked to spectators all the time, because he knew he was unbeatable and could do anything. He held the Coloured World Title for about 6-7 years made 17 defences, (nobody else made more than 3, except Harry Wills-25 ) and gave it up when he beat Tommy Burns. He fought many black fighters multiple times'The best, Sam McVeigh 3 times and Joe Jeanette 7-8 times. He was afraid of nobody.

PS. Tony GE says there were race riots when he won the title, (and more when he beat Jeffries). There were about 20 people killed in those riots, and multi millions of property destroyed . Something like the *** stuff today in the ********ic ruled states ..

- -Dunno where you get Sam and Joe $figures that I've never seen revealed, but they were making great $ in the US, enough to pay for elite sea travel overseas. The 1913 fight in Paris for the heavyweight title the French stripped from JJ for not fighting top comp.

JJOHNSON was a stinker/Sinker few wanted to watch. Absent the Jeffries wealth, he had little viewing worth other than a panto villain.

Btw, Jeannette and Wills of that era never suffered the the Great Depression setbacks like JJ and Langford

[joseph5620]

Did he say that???? I'm not surprised, and i'm sure you know why!

He sure did. After I called him out on that he put me on ignore for the second time lol. He also claimed George Chuvalo deserved the decision over Ali and was robbed. His boxing opinions are just as ignorant as his social and political opinions. Funny how they all have one thing in common

[joseph5620]

- -Wraps have always enhanced fighters punching abilities, hence in the trade they are called "the cast," same as a medical cast sans plaster.

There were no wrapping rules in Dempsey day, but there were a gentlemans agreement that wraps and gloves could be inspected by the opposing camp, in this case Willard himself.

Only fly in the ointment is modern candied pantywaists with attention span and bipolar manic disorders leaving them with half brained cogitation function.

Insert Usual Suspects here: Enjoy!

I never said there was a rule. I said it's obvious what he was doing with the wraps and it gave him an advantage. Nothing you posted here has anything to do with what I said.

[JAB5239]

I never said there was a rule. I said it's obvious what he was doing with the wraps and it gave him an advantage. Nothing you posted here has anything to do with what I said.

He has a habit of doing that. 😆

[joseph5620]

He has a habit of doing that. 😆

Some things never change

[edgarg]

- -Dunno where you get Sam and Joe $figures that I've never seen revealed, but they were making great $ in the US, enough to pay for elite sea travel overseas. The 1913 fight in Paris for the heavyweight title the French stripped from JJ for not fighting top comp.

JJOHNSON was a stinker/Sinker few wanted to watch. Absent the Jeffries wealth, he had little viewing worth other than a panto villain.

Btw, Jeannette and Wills of that era never suffered the the Great Depression setbacks like JJ and Langford

That's your opinion. I got mine from research. I think I saw the $6,000 info in an a/c of the Coloured Heavyweight title. not sure, but saw it only yesterday. The French had NO authority to strip ANYONE of their title certainly not the US World champion, so that's pure bull. The doctors who examined him after the fight said that he's previously had a fractured bone, but during the fight a blow completed the break. Wills and Langford were actually a half generation later than Johnson although their careers were going roughly at the same time. Johnson was over 30 when he won the title. Wills was about 18 then.

As a side-note..In my collection I have a newspaper picture of Sam Langford in his old age, half blind,poverty stricken , sitting on the step of a cabin, with a big stomach and shabby jacked fastened by a large safety pin. He wore glasses. I think it was taken when boxing enthusiasts found him,in the deepest poverty and gave him a better life.

[travestyny]

He sure did. After I called him out on that he put me on ignore for the second time lol. He also claimed George Chuvalo deserved the decision over Ali and was robbed. His boxing opinions are just as ignorant as his social and political opinions. Funny how they all have one thing in common

lol. The dude is an utter embarrassment