Who had the most mismatches on their resume?

[GhostofDempsey]

Which fighters often had significant physical advantages over their opponents, or significant advantages in experience? Who had the most mismatches on their record relative to their entire body of work?

My short list:

Jack Johnson
Harry Wills
Ali
Bernard Hopkins
The Klitchko brothers

[Willie Pep 229]

I just don't have the dept of knowledge to answer that question.

It would be easier, more flippant, to ask what are biggest mismatches ever staged, then I could add fights like:

Bowe-Ferguson
Louis-Roper
Patterson-Rademacher
Dempsey-Carpentier

But sorry I just don't know enough to add to, or even critique, your list.

[GhostofDempsey]

I just don't have the dept of knowledge to answer that question.

It would be easier, more flippant, to ask what are biggest mismatches ever staged, then I could add fights like:

Bowe-Ferguson
Louis-Roper
Patterson-Rademacher
Dempsey-Carpentier

But sorry I just don't know enough to add to, or even critique, your list.

Looking over the scope of their careers, which fighters had fights with opponents who were clearly outclassed and had little to no chance at winning?

To be more precise:

Jack Johnson's best wins were over much smaller fighters who were either natural middleweights or had less than ten or twenty fights. He typically had a distinct size advantage.

The 3x he fought McVea, Sam had less than ten fights, yet Johnson gets a lot of credit for beating him. First time he fought Jeannette, Joe was 0-3, and he fought him 6x with less than twenty fights to his name. The last outing they had was a draw when Jeannette finally began to hit his stride and figure him out. Both he and McVea were denied a title shots once they gained more experience. Then there was MW Ketchel, old Jeffries, Tony Ross, Al Kaufman and the long string of never-was opponents after the Willard KO loss.

Harry Wills towered over most of his opponents at nearly 6'3" and 220+. He had physical advantages over most of his opponents who he could smother, clinch, and wrestle his way to victory. A 5'7" Langford couldn't overcome the size difference despite being a superior boxer. Jeannette and McVea were each closer to LHW at 5'10" 180. Fought no-hoper Jack Thompson 9x--a guy with a career record of 19-16-5. Bill Tate was a Dempsey sparring partner who he fought 5x, and Battling Jim Johnson 3x...the only black man to get a title shot from Jack Johnson, was 5'9" and not much more than a journeyman.

Ali at 6'3" had his share of mismatches. Considerably smaller, older, or less experienced opponents padded his record. Washed up LHW Moore, broken down Patterson 2x, LHW Foster, Quarry who he fought 2x, then there was the journeyman level opponents like Blin, Mac Foster, Lubbers, Lewis, Cooper 2x, London, washed up Williams, all during the peak of his career.

Bernard Hopkins was a tall MW at 6'1", and could easily have moved to 168 at any time, but he chose to remain at 160 to pad his record against a long string of inferior competition and break Monzon's title defense record. Robert Allen 3x? Vanderpool, Frank, Lipsey, Bo James, Council, Holmes, Echols 2x, Eastman. Best wins were blown up welterweights De La Hoya and Trinidad and Tarver who had to lose over 40 pounds to make weight. I can't think of any time he had to overcome any serious disadvantages to win a fight aside from his age, but he was a well-preserved fighter who got off to a late start and never really took much punishment from the smaller opponents he feasted on.

The Klitchkos were towering HWs who almost always had a distinct size advantage over their opponents. At 6'6" and 6'7" the HW division didn't have very many "Super Heavyweights" who could match them in terms of height and strength. They were limited in their boxing ability and Wlad especially relied heavily on a jab and clinch strategy and wearing down opponents while leaning his weight on them. Got his ass handed to him by guys like Puritty, Sanders and Brewster. Best wins were a washed up Mercer and Byrd, a former middleweight.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Fat Lar




I did it!



I beat Queenie to the punch!


Seriously, his record almost looks like something from the early days of Boxing.

[Rusty Tromboni]

The Klitchko brothers

That's a stretch.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Dempsey-Carpentier

Have you seen the restored footage of Carpentier?

He was really quite good.

Dempsey carried him, but Georges wasn't new to Heavyweight. And even after fighting Dempsey, he'd fight Loughran, Gibbons and Tunney - all men whom Jack respected immensely.

[Willie Pep 229]

Looking over the scope of their careers, which fighters had fights with opponents who were clearly outclassed and had little to no chance at winning?

To be more precise:

Jack Johnson's best wins were over much smaller fighters who were either natural middleweights or had less than ten or twenty fights. He typically had a distinct size advantage.

The 3x he fought McVea, Sam had less than ten fights, yet Johnson gets a lot of credit for beating him. First time he fought Jeannette, Joe was 0-3, and he fought him 6x with less than twenty fights to his name. The last outing they had was a draw when Jeannette finally began to hit his stride and figure him out. Both he and McVea were denied a title shots once they gained more experience. Then there was MW Ketchel, old Jeffries, Tony Ross, Al Kaufman and the long string of never-was opponents after the Willard KO loss.

Harry Wills towered over most of his opponents at nearly 6'3" and 220+. He had physical advantages over most of his opponents who he could smother, clinch, and wrestle his way to victory. A 5'7" Langford couldn't overcome the size difference despite being a superior boxer. Jeannette and McVea were each closer to LHW at 5'10" 180. Fought no-hoper Jack Thompson 9x--a guy with a career record of 19-16-5. Bill Tate was a Dempsey sparring partner who he fought 5x, and Battling Jim Johnson 3x...the only black man to get a title shot from Jack Johnson, was 5'9" and not much more than a journeyman.

Ali at 6'3" had his share of mismatches. Considerably smaller, older, or less experienced opponents padded his record. Washed up LHW Moore, broken down Patterson 2x, LHW Foster, Quarry who he fought 2x, then there was the journeyman level opponents like Blin, Mac Foster, Lubbers, Lewis, Cooper 2x, London, washed up Williams, all during the peak of his career.

Bernard Hopkins was a tall MW at 6'1", and could easily have moved to 168 at any time, but he chose to remain at 160 to pad his record against a long string of inferior competition and break Monzon's title defense record. Robert Allen 3x? Vanderpool, Frank, Lipsey, Bo James, Council, Holmes, Echols 2x, Eastman. Best wins were blown up welterweights De La Hoya and Trinidad and Tarver who had to lose over 40 pounds to make weight. I can't think of any time he had to overcome any serious disadvantages to win a fight aside from his age, but he was a well-preserved fighter who got off to a late start and never really took much punishment from the smaller opponents he feasted on.

The Klitchkos were towering HWs who almost always had a distinct size advantage over their opponents. At 6'6" and 6'7" the HW division didn't have very many "Super Heavyweights" who could match them in terms of height and strength. They were limited in their boxing ability and Wlad especially relied heavily on a jab and clinch strategy and wearing down opponents while leaning his weight on them. Got his ass handed to him by guys like Puritty, Sanders and Brewster. Best wins were a washed up Mercer and Byrd, a former middleweight.

Cool -- thanks for the ed.

[jmrf4435]

every single PBC fighter

[aboutfkntime]

Have you seen the restored footage of Carpentier?

He was really quite good.

Dempsey carried him, but Georges wasn't new to Heavyweight. And even after fighting Dempsey, he'd fight Loughran, Gibbons and Tunney - all men whom Jack respected immensely.

Carpentier was a phenom

not a natural heavyweight

[billeau2]

Just a reminder, and something Ray often said on the boards: The heavyweight is an open division. Technically any weight can compete... And size is an advantage, not the only major advantage.

Inevitably people use weight as a major issue when discussing mismatches. Many times though, a great heavyweight will take on much larger men and make winning look easy. Size and strenght are important, but not an exclusive arbitrator of victory.