Who was more overrated; Mayweather, Jack Johnson or Ali?

[chirorickyp]

I'd have to go with Johnson. Let's clear up a few things with Ali. Chuvalo??? That's not even worth bringing up.
Jimmy Young? Young did nothing in that fight. 2nd Norton Ali won clearly in a competitive fight.
Liston fixes? He beat the hell out of him. He was amazing!
Doug Jones? Just because it was competitive doesn't mean Jones won. Ali won period
Spinks 2 was close?? No one on the planet has ever even made that statement. Not ever close.

You just don't like the fighter. Not the man, the fighter

[GhostofDempsey]

I'd have to go with Johnson. Let's clear up a few things with Ali. Chuvalo??? That's not even worth bringing up.
Jimmy Young? Young did nothing in that fight. 2nd Norton Ali won clearly in a competitive fight.
Liston fixes? He beat the hell out of him. He was amazing!
Doug Jones? Just because it was competitive doesn't mean Jones won. Ali won period
Spinks 2 was close?? No one on the planet has ever even made that statement. Not ever close.

You just don't like the fighter. Not the man, the fighter

I disagree with your assessment, which appears to be based more on emotion than substance.

[chirorickyp]

I disagree with your assessment, which appears to be based more on emotion than substance.

And that's why we go on the forum. We disagree we discuss. Chuvalo Spinks II Liston fixes etc, vast majority do not see them as you do objectively.

I have yet to hear EVER anyone saying George Chuvalo was the uncrowned champ.

I don't remember Spinks corner or Spinks himself or ANYONE for that matter saying that Leon retained the title in the rematch.
When Ali said " I shook up the world " Nobody laughed they were all in shock how the invincible Liston was beaten up by Cassius Clay as Liston would not come out to be humiliated and avoid eventually beintg STOPPED.

The winter green in the eyes was the fix. Ali fighting blind was not the fix. Ali's performance changed sport itself that night. FIX??????????? Claiming fix is being emotional

[GhostofDempsey]

And that's why we go on the forum. We disagree we discuss. Chuvalo Spinks II Liston fixes etc, vast majority do not see them as you do objectively.

I have yet to hear EVER anyone saying George Chuvalo was the uncrowned champ.

I don't remember Spinks corner or Spinks himself or ANYONE for that matter saying that Leon retained the title in the rematch.
When Ali said " I shook up the world " Nobody laughed they were all in shock how the invincible Liston was beaten up by Cassius Clay as Liston would not come out to be humiliated and avoid eventually beintg STOPPED.

The winter green in the eyes was the fix. Ali fighting blind was not the fix. Ali's performance changed sport itself that night. FIX??????????? Claiming fix is being emotional

If you watch the Ali vs Spinks II fight with the sound turned off you will see an entirely fight than the one Ali’s good friend Cosell is calling. Cosell called phantom punches for Ali, ignored every punch Spinks landed, called the fight as if Ali was putting on a clinic, which he wasn’t. This dight was a lot closer than Howard called it and how the biased judges scored it. Thus the story of Ali’s career. He was flashy, charismatic, and good for television, which was the future of boxing. He resurrected the sport during a time when it was in a slump.

I have read enough books and conducted enough if my own research, as well as watched all of these fights to determine Ali was overrated. Not to say he wasn’t a good or maybe great fighter or trivialize his importance to the sport, but he was nowhere near “The Greatest” as many today believe. Floyd Mayweather pretty much insists the same.

[HOUDINI563]

Huh? You must be joking. I watched live both Ali Spinks bouts (as well as most all Ali’s bouts from 71 onward).

Ali Spinks 2 was a one sided affair. It was not a controversial decision. No reporter, no boxing periodical called the bout a bad decision. I was a huge Leon Spinks fan at THAT time as I followed him during the 76 Olympics. As Much as I wanted Spinks to win the bout was a monotonous affair. Ali moving and boxing, Spinks unable to land. Round after round.

If you despise Ali for some reason you could point to say his bouts with Young or Norton 3. (I would also disagree). But to pull out of your ass Ali Spinks 2 as a bad decision??? For shame.

[HOUDINI563]

Judges gave Ali 10-11 rounds.
AP 12-3 Ali
NO Times 13-2 Ali
Ring 11-3-1 Ali
BI 12-3 Ali

[Miles.Ahead]

Tough one but I will go with Mayweather.

[chirorickyp]

If you watch the Ali vs Spinks II fight with the sound turned off you will see an entirely fight than the one Ali’s good friend Cosell is calling. Cosell called phantom punches for Ali, ignored every punch Spinks landed, called the fight as if Ali was putting on a clinic, which he wasn’t. This dight was a lot closer than Howard called it and how the biased judges scored it. Thus the story of Ali’s career. He was flashy, charismatic, and good for television, which was the future of boxing. He resurrected the sport during a time when it was in a slump.

I have read enough books and conducted enough if my own research, as well as watched all of these fights to determine Ali was overrated. Not to say he wasn’t a good or maybe great fighter or trivialize his importance to the sport, but he was nowhere near “The Greatest” as many today believe. Floyd Mayweather pretty much insists the same.

I've watched the fight at least 10 times since I saw it live. The last time was March of this year. I was surprised at how a Parkinsoned Ali actually landed right hands to Spinks and actually had him stunned a few times. Spinks had a hard time reaching Ali. He won 3 rounds perhaps and not much happened in them. Not a mark on Ali's face.

You are the first person I have ever heard of in my life to ever make such comments about that fight. I guess the Associated Press, every writer who covered the fight, Burt Sugar, Spinks' corner, Ferdie Pacheco and every professional boxer who watched the fight were all part of the cover up and the whole world believed them even though they knew they saw different.

You see the fight otherwise, so I'll leave it at that. Point taken

[GhostofDempsey]

I've watched the fight at least 10 times since I saw it live. The last time was March of this year. I was surprised at how a Parkinsoned Ali actually landed right hands to Spinks and actually had him stunned a few times. Spinks had a hard time reaching Ali. He won 3 rounds perhaps and not much happened in them. Not a mark on Ali's face.

You are the first person I have ever heard of in my life to ever make such comments about that fight. I guess the Associated Press, every writer who covered the fight, Burt Sugar, Spinks' corner, Ferdie Pacheco and every professional boxer who watched the fight were all part of the cover up and the whole world believed them even though they knew they saw different.

You see the fight otherwise, so I'll leave it at that. Point taken

Im just saying I saw it closer. Without looking at it from a sentimental or inherently biased perspective. There are many who felt both Liston fights were fixed. Most don’t doubt the rematch was thrown by Liston in what was one of the worst acting jobs ever. Ali was protected and connected. Dundee’s brother was connected.

Norton was robbed at least once and arguably twice. He wasn’t even a great or polished fighter. A great athlete who got off to a late start. Futch had the blueprint to beat Ali and trained Norton to victory. Norton’s biggest mistake was parting ways with Futch.

Jimmy Young was indeed robbed. The same press you credit with scoring Ali well ahead of Spinks had Young well ahead of Ali.

[HOUDINI563]

Both Ali Liston bouts were investigated multiple times by boxing commissions and the FBI. No evidence of any fix was found. Read the SI article from that time for an eye witness testimony.

Ali Norton 3 was an extremely close fight. It was shown live on nationwide TV a few weeks after it occurred. A panel of judges, former champions and historians scored the bout. In the end the compulsion of all the scores revealed a DRAW. So again a very close bout. In those days a close bout for the heavyweight championship the champion was usually given the benefit of the doubt. The same with non aggressive contenders such as Young who did everything he could not to engage with Ali. Decisions for the champion are common all through the weight divisions in such type bouts.