Who was more overrated; Mayweather, Jack Johnson or Ali?

[GhostofDempsey]

It was not just Johnson who said "two blacks won't draw" it was also the opinion of the three major US promoters. Namely:

Sunny Jim Coffroth = " Two blacks won't draw flies"

Barney Curley= "The public wont buy a heavyweight title fight between two coloreds"

Tex Rickard - “a fight between two blacks isn't worth a bucket of warm p*ss" .

What is boils down to, is the size of the expected audience dictates the size of the purse, that is how boxing works.

Promoters are in the business of putting on shows that will draw gates, if they were of the opinion that two blacks contesting the heavyweight title would have drawn a decent gate then would have put the wheels in motion to promote one!

Since they didn't, I think we can safely assume they did not think there was any coin in such a fight.

That being the case Johnson was not making an excuse he was stating a fact!

So if the top promoters weren't prepared to promote such a fight it wasn't happening.

You're still dismissing the smoking gun here...Johnson chose to fight Battling Jim Johnson, a black fighter, but not Langford, McVea, or Jeannette while champion. Jim Johnson was a lesser opponent, and he took that fight for less money than he could have earned against the other three. No matter how you try to spin this, Johnson ducked the other three while champion. It's a matter of historical fact. Quotes from promoters and obscure, anonymous newspaper clippings from over 100 years ago do not change those facts.

[HOUDINI563]

As mentioned Johnson fought Jim Johnson as a tune up for Moran. He had to get himself in shape for that bout already being negotiated.

[Bandman]

jack Johnson since we dont know much about him or his opponents. as far as societal impact though he's the goat because of what he accomplished in an era where black were being lynched. but strictly talking boxing we dont know much about him and less of his opponents

[QueensburyRules]

You're still dismissing the smoking gun here...Johnson chose to fight Battling Jim Johnson, a black fighter, but not Langford, McVea, or Jeannette while champion. Jim Johnson was a lesser opponent, and he took that fight for less money than he could have earned against the other three. No matter how you try to spin this, Johnson ducked the other three while champion. It's a matter of historical fact. Quotes from promoters and obscure, anonymous newspaper clippings from over 100 years ago do not change those facts.

- -Ghost knows.

French strip JJOHNSON of his belt that Sam puts a whoopin' on Joe to claim, a classic boxer slugger vs a boxer.

[GhostofDempsey]

- -Ghost knows.

French strip JJOHNSON of his belt that Sam puts a whoopin' on Joe to claim, a classic boxer slugger vs a boxer.

The casuals of the forum would have us believe Johnson was an honorable man who took on all opposition. They call Jeannette a liar when he claims he was never given a legit shot at his title, they claim Langford and McVea a liar as well. Unless of course they are trying to push the legacy of a Jeannette, then of course he and his snake oil salesman of a manager McKetrick are no longer liars but salt of the earth, trustworthy ambassadors of the sport.

[Blond Beast]

Hard to comment on Jack since I haven't seen a ton his fights or can fully understand the era he lived in. Seen almost all of Ali's fights iirc & I think I've only not seen 1 early Floyd fight.

So between Ali & Floyd I think it's an easy choice of Ali being the most overrated. As you bring up Ali had numerous gift decisions easily getting him into double digits L's if fights had been more evenly scored. He was also pretty fooking basic for a great fighter all things considered. I swear 90% of the punches he threw were jabs to the head & if not for his speed I tend to doubt he'd had even been a top ten guy. HWs also always get more attention than lesser weight fighters so there's that too.

I have to second this. Hard to judge Jack Johnson. My dad said Ali probably should have lost to Norton twice. I saw both those fights on replay as a kid. I think he should have lost but I see why he won. He also said Ali knew how to shoe shine better than anyone at the end of the round to impress the judges. But he also said that impressing the judges was part of boxing and Ali was great at it. I think Ali was amazing, and he just looked like a winner and a million bucks in there. Being overrated is a great compliment. That means the fans love you, pay to see you, that’s prize fighting. Tyson is overrated in the ring, but not as an attraction. Ali himself would be disappointed if he wasent overrated I’m sure. It means u have something extra. A guy like Lennox probably underrated. It’s can be a different story at the betting window if ur life depended on it.

[QueensburyRules]

I have to second this. Hard to judge Jack Johnson. My dad said Ali probably should have lost to Norton twice. I saw both those fights on replay as a kid. I think he should have lost but I see why he won. He also said Ali knew how to shoe shine better than anyone at the end of the round to impress the judges. But he also said that impressing the judges was part of boxing and Ali was great at it. I think Ali was amazing, and he just looked like a winner and a million bucks in there. Being overrated is a great compliment. That means the fans love you, pay to see you, that’s prize fighting. Tyson is overrated in the ring, but not as an attraction. Ali himself would be disappointed if he wasent overrated I’m sure. It means u have something extra. A guy like Lennox probably underrated. It’s can be a different story at the betting window if ur life depended on it.

- -Wilt did a spontaneous impression of Ali's shoeshining on ABC with Cosell promoting their fight where Ali refused to sign the contract they'd agreed to.

Embarassing but true. Wilt shook Ali and his NOI handlers to their very core!

Wilt owned every space he occupied, fact.

[Blond Beast]

- -Wilt did a spontaneous impression of Ali's shoeshining on ABC with Cosell promoting their fight where Ali refused to sign the contract they'd agreed to.

Embarassing but true. Wilt shook Ali and his NOI handlers to their very core!

Wilt owned every space he occupied, fact.

I don’t doubt it. I remember as a kid seeing Wilt in one of the Conan movies and it was hard just to process...

[HOUDINI563]

Queen is lying again. Wilt just stood there while Ali expressed his utter disdain. Wilt had as much chance of landing a punch than Ali did beating Wilt on the basketball court.

First solid blow Ali lands end the fight? Why? Wilt was not a boxer. He was a basketball player. Being able to fight at a high level takes many years of dedication.

[QueensburyRules]

Queen is lying again. Wilt just stood there while Ali expressed his utter disdain. Wilt had as much chance of landing a punch than Ali did beating Wilt on the basketball court.

First solid blow Ali lands end the fight? Why? Wilt was not a boxer. He was a basketball player. Being able to fight at a high level takes many years of dedication.

- -Wilt didn't suffer U fainting goat physical palpitations or mental disabilities.

He had Cus training him.

He didn't even like basketball save for his Globetrotter days where he got to play point guard and play roles and make up stunts.

Tip of the iceberg.

U really are quit untutored for someone of U purported years.

Stoopid?