The History of Boxing in Ancient Egypt.

[ShoulderRoll]

LOL @ Martin Bernal. You've lost any chance at being taken seriously.


How about just referring to science, and abandoning speculation?

I'm not saying there weren't Blacks in Egypt. I do believe Aksum, while mostly Semitic, was at least partially mixed-race. Definitively NOT West African. But not purely Mediterranean or Semitic.

But the evidence shows Egyptians, particularly the ruling class and stewards of Egyptian culture, were White. If Bernal proves anything, it's that Egypt might've been apart of a pre- Indo European cultural/genetic exchange occurring in the Eastern Mediterranean.
Look up the Etruscan language and pre-Hittite Anatolia for a more accurate and broader perspective.

Again, no one made the claim that Egyptians were black. But it was very important for you to jump in and focus on that argument for some reason.

What was actually said is that Egyptian culture might have influenced other cultures in Africa and vice versa. Which seems like a safe assumption to make.

[billeau2]

LOL @ Martin Bernal. You've lost any chance at being taken seriously.


How about just referring to science, and abandoning speculation?

I'm not saying there weren't Blacks in Egypt. I do believe Aksum, while mostly Semitic, was at least partially mixed-race. Definitively NOT West African. But not purely Mediterranean or Semitic.

But the evidence shows Egyptians, particularly the ruling class and stewards of Egyptian culture, were White. If Bernal proves anything, it's that Egypt might've been apart of a pre- Indo European cultural/genetic exchange occurring in the Eastern Mediterranean.
Look up the Etruscan language and pre-Hittite Anatolia for a more accurate and broader perspective.

Bernal is a respected academic from Columbia University who was, before entering Egyptology, a well versed scholar in Chinese Studies. I know all about Chinese studies as i studied at the graduate level and was mentored undergrad by one of Chomsky's students, a preeminent scholar in Chinese Ethics... You don't get to dismiss Martin Bernal like that.

The evidence in Egypt is no such thing. First of all race is a poor construct, it is at best secondary. What we know is that Egypt comes out of the plethora of African cultures that seemed to be very sophisticated in antiquity along with the Mesopotamian cultures. Both of which I have studied extensively so you might want to stop with BS. If you have something to say that is true, and provable by all means say it.

Nobody knows what "race" Egypt was, its not entertained anymore than an archeologist 1000 years from now could tell you what "race" existed in the district of Los Angeles/Phoenix... "a race of proto-hispanics, with overlay of Caucasian and Black residents? lol.

Your a dunce. Egypt was a cosmopolitian city with all races of people! You may be referring to nobility, a class of individuals, or a movement within the society, such as the movement to question the Phaorah's divinity, but race is a piss poor categorizer for Egypt. Bernal shows proof of the language, and the archeology to prove his contention, not race.

[billeau2]

The same way other Pseudoscience proves Blacks and Asians are inferior?

Blacks didn't give over to the God damn Arabs and Turks as Parthians, Romans, Slavs and Indians. And mongols destroyed our culture. Ever hear of The Islamic Golden Age? It wasn't. It was Iranian. The Mongols only attacked us because we insulted them.

See, pseudoscience may seem convincing when you've got blinders on. But it quickly falls apart when contacted with hard evidence.

Again your a dunce, your confusing different concepts and arriving at an illogical conclusion because of the confusion.

On a very basic level: without distorting the differences in Persian culture, as a whole Persia is a different culture than other Middle Eastern cultures. No suprise there...Actually if people were observant they would see things like this in their own culture! Did you know that the South, in this country (USA) is a construct of at least 3 different distinct cultures? More than that actually? You have Southern Seaboard, ******ia, part of the old aristocracy that came over to this country as the first aristoc**** and land owners...then you have appalachian culture from the hills of Scotch Irish Europe to the hills of the Smokey mountains....and then you have the French Acadian and the European Creole culture in Louisiana...All separate distinct cultures.

So YES Persia is different from the other Middle Eastern cultures and? Persia was a great empire and still functions as such...even present day Ir-aryan Iran... balances a secular government with a fervently religious syndacite. Persia is a distinct culture, different from the Middle East...I don't know what your bone to pick is with this interaction, I can imagine having met Persians whom I call friends, that the middle east is not what they consider their culture... But the racial component of this is not the issue!

History tells us that the Aryan invasion came from the Caspian Sea went through Iran, etc and arrived in India. We have information that tells us this is legit, for example Fire Worship in Zorothustrian religion (sp) is very similar to Agni Hotra worship in the Rig Veda (India). We also see a distinct caste system separating people in India and it does tend to look at the native people of India (Dravidian) as second class citizens, when compared to light skinned Brahmans and Kischiatria.(warrior class)

[billeau2]

Again, no one made the claim that Egyptians were black. But it was very important for you to jump in and focus on that argument for some reason.

What was actually said is that Egyptian culture might have influenced other cultures in Africa and vice versa. Which seems like a safe assumption to make.

He is deluded because he is parroting arguments made out of an agenda. If people are totally ignorant, and JUST look at common sense a lot of more substantial issues would fall by the wayside: For example, someone in martial arts tells you how to disarm a knife... Well instead of arguing "this works, this does not work," go home, call an obnoxious friend/training buddy, get a training knife and play with the technique! It used to drive me nuts the amount of argument generated because nobody could be bothered to just see for themselves....

With Egypt? First thing one can do is ask "I am in the civilization with the biggest cities, perhaps rivaled by Mesopotamia, but, cities that are drawing people from all over the world to trade, to live, because of the river.... So am I supposed to believe that these people all come to Egypt, never fall in love, stay have kids, etc?

You see my point lol? We know that cities are heterogenius constructions and the Greeks were writing about Egypt from the time of the presocratics. So we know that according to Plato, even the Egyptians were mentored by other cultures.

The other part of this comes from the language and artifacts. It is clear that languages in Egypt came out of African constructions.,, later I believe Bernal shows a connection to Semitic language, though I do not remember off the top of my head.

[Marchegiano]

Martin Bernal "Black Athena" shows conclusively through linguistic evidence, archeological evidence, etc that Egypt was an Afro-Hamitic culture. Your post is, as usual correct.

I'll have to check that out I only know african history due to my knowledge of boxing history. In short the Greeks had a thing for Africa.

[billeau2]

I'll have to check that out I only know african history due to my knowledge of boxing history. In short the Greeks had a thing for Africa.

The real simple functional way of describing this "thing" is the same reason why a city like Cairo has millions of people and Lafayette Louisiana has 250,000. There aint no river in Cajun country (Lafayette), Africa had a river, Mesopotamia also had a river, where there are rivers civilzation sprouts. The Nile has some interesting features in this regard, like direction, and current idiocyncracies.

I would take it one step further and say where one has civilization one will find rules of combat. We may not know what Aztec martial arts looked like but we know they had hellaciously good arts, ditto for Egypt, and one would expect these arts to cultivate into a sports, competition scenario at some point. It is human nature. Africans have great stick fighting systems, tribal boxing as well. Zulu stick men beat up the Brits.

I will also say this... with some exceptions (JIm Arvantis for Pankraton for example) most people who recreate these arts do a grave disservice to the institutions they seek to reinvigorate. African Zulu stick fighters were not into clubbing away at each other as it is portrayed, rather there was a systematic method taught to these arts... Another great example being Indonesian Silat. Silat is not Chinese Kun Tao and it is not hocus pocus, when taught properly it is as thorough in its understanding of anatomy and weapons work, as the most discriminating Combatives program for the military. Point being that these men were the same men of science and physical bearing that we see in our own arts,. many of these arts were pressure tested on the battle fields as well.

This is one reason why I like the older methods in preclassical European/Continental boxing. There was more martial emphasis, including on not getting hit, how to fight in all ranges and how to use the feet and body to outmanuveur an opponent at sword length.

[johnbook]

Any movies depicting this?

[BrotherDudeJack]

This thread started out good and then you jerk offs ruined it.

[The Old LefHook]

It started out good, eh?

[billeau2]

It started out good, eh?

Compared to some of the 5h1t im seeing posted... Did you know that Sonny Liston is a poor man's Joe Louis