Thoughts on Roy Jones Jr. Legacy

[billeau2]

Now that Roy Jones is retiring on Thursday (or so we think), where does his legacy stand.

He fought on for way too long.

If he would have retired after the Ruiz win, he would have been highly rated in overall history.

But now most of the younger fans remember him as some old guy who became a Russian citizen, a guy who keeps getting knocked out cold, etc.

It shouldn't matter how long he fought on Red... Some fighters, for whatever reason found success at later times in life and this contributed to their legacy...like Hopkins, but we should not taint Jones greatness with his decision to fight on.

[The Old LefHook]

If Jones had retired right after whipping Ruiz...

If Holyfield had retired after either Tyson fight...

Their legacies would be so much more pristine.

And Robinson should have retired after the second Basilio fight. His record would look much prettier than all those losses to marginal fighters. He should have actually been retired for good before he ever faced Basilio, but since he did face him, after their second fight where he avenged the original loss, Ray should have retired.

Fighters often miss the golden opportunity of retirement when it would boost their legacies most. Don't worry, even the legacy of the mighty Robinson would be slightly higher and more pristine if he had, say, only five or six losses out of a hundred and sixty fights instead of seventeen losses out of two hundred. Please do not tell me that is not more impressive.

You could count on your fingers the number of ATGs who got retirement right. Try it. See what you come up with. You are apt to have some fingers left over.

[The Old LefHook]

It shouldn't matter how long he fought on Red... Some fighters, for whatever reason found success at later times in life and this contributed to their legacy...like Hopkins, but we should not taint Jones greatness with his decision to fight on.

By God, Billy, it is time for me to address something else--the issue of points not received and the interest not added to one's account total.

Several times I have spoken of points parties my wife had to cancel because the points were not added to my account. But it goes a little further than just civic embarrassment, Billy boy. I support my family with those points, by God, and they have to be fed!

I am going to feed my family at all costs. Do you hear me now!!?

When I see my kids going hungry another day at school while trying to learn their A, B and Cs, it just about breaks my heart. And I get up a good head of steam of bitterness at the administrators who stall my awards. I won't stand for it! I want to feed my family!

[Anthony342]

If Jones had retired right after whipping Ruiz...

If Holyfield had retired after either Tyson fight...

Their legacies would be so much more pristine.

And Robinson should have retired after the second Basilio fight. His record would look much prettier than all those losses to marginal fighters. He should have actually been retired for good before he ever faced Basilio, but since he did face him, after their second fight where he avenged the original loss, Ray should have retired.

Fighters often miss the golden opportunity of retirement when it would boost their legacies most. Don't worry, even the legacy of the mighty Robinson would be slightly higher and more pristine if he had, say, only five or six losses out of a hundred and sixty fights instead of seventeen losses out of two hundred. Please do not tell me that is not more impressive.

You could count on your fingers the number of ATGs who got retirement right. Try it. See what you come up with. You are apt to have some fingers left over.

Yes unfortunately. I wish more fighters would leave before they're completely shot and embarrassing themselves. Only ones I can think of that left either at a good time or when still on top would probably be guys like Marciano, Mayweather, Calzaghe, Ward, maybe Paul Williams, as he beat everyone he fought, as well as someone like Lennox Lewis and Yoko Gushiken, who finished his career losing to a guy he already beat previously and was only 26. Vitali Klitschko, who was still WBC Heavyweight Champion at the time of his retirement would apply here as well. Royce and Rickson Gracie are the only ones to really do it in MMA so far, most of those fighters get forced out either by a loss (Gina Carano, Ronda Rousey) or from nobody sanctioning them to fight anymore (Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes, Ken Shamrock, Anderson Silva who some consider the GOAT). In the modern era, Georges St. Pierre or GSP is really the only one I can think of.

In other sports, Derek Jeter went out pretty well in baseball and in football, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Tiki Barber were all running backs who left when they probably still had plenty left in the tank, but got to leave on their own terms, like John Elway, who retired right after winning his second Super Bowl in a row.

Unfortunately, it's more often that not something like Ali's last two fights with Holmes and Berbick or Wlad losing the title to convince most of them it's time to go.

I have memories of Phil Simms not being able to take the Giants to victory any longer, along with Lawrence Taylor and Don Mattingly not being able to run as fast with his back problems, Michael Jordan's second comeback involving a stint with the Washington Wizards and I've heard tell of elders passing on stories of Mickey Mantle sticking around one year too long, not being able to run as fast as he used to and bringing his career average below .300 and Babe Ruth being so shop worn that he needed someone to do his running for him after hitting the ball.

[mickey malone]

Jones vs Michalczewski during the mid to late 90's would have been quite interesting

[billeau2]

By God, Billy, it is time for me to address something else--the issue of points not received and the interest not added to one's account total.

Several times I have spoken of points parties my wife had to cancel because the points were not added to my account. But it goes a little further than just civic embarrassment, Billy boy. I support my family with those points, by God, and they have to be fed!

I am going to feed my family at all costs. Do you hear me now!!?

When I see my kids going hungry another day at school while trying to learn their A, B and Cs, it just about breaks my heart. And I get up a good head of steam of bitterness at the administrators who stall my awards. I won't stand for it! I want to feed my family!

Points, reputation, etc...who knows how it works? I don't lol. Didn't I send you some points some time ago?

[billeau2]

Back when I was a casual...its been five minutes now lol... I was on a boxing board and very content to learn from guys who had been boxing fans for far longer than I had been. At that time Jones was worshipped, much as Floyd is worshipped now.

What started to emerge in my mind was a comparison to Joe Calzighe: Two guys who fought similar weight classes and were compared(by people who did not know any better like yours truly). But before Roy got comfortable he fought the best in his division... when the best were not past it. Joe never did this. So when we talk about ducking and the best, etc... Roy may have not been like some of the top guys historically in terms of competition encountered, but...Roy beat some great fighters.

I learned a lot about Jones...One reason he did not challenge as much involved his father's management as well... at any rate Jones would be a hand full for almost any one in his range. His weakness would be pressure guys...Not necessarily chin. Roy needed time to set up and create distance...Guys like Armstrong would have made him look bad at any time, despite the weight difference at 160.

[TBear]

I believe Jones Jr's legacy is still intact. When he fell off he fell hard, never to be the same again but what he accomplished earlier was what will count. Do you think when people talk about Sugar Ray Robinson, they mention his late career losses to Stan Harrington, Ferd Hernandez and Memo Ayon? No because what he accomplished while in his prime is what matters. I am not placing Roy with Sugar Ray but in his prime, Jones Jr. was special.

[jaded]

RJJ was one of the best ever. His cat-like speed may have very well been unequaled and his 47 KOs speaks for itself. I think too many people judge him hard on his late career era...but you have to remember that he had financial obligations unfortunately and had to do what he had to do to make money. And he did so the best way he knew how and I give him respect for that and not reneging on his obligations.

[W1LL]

Should have retired after winning an alphabet title at Heavyweight.