For those of you who put think Marciano is overrated

[brownpimp88]

that list is baed on a myth of a fighter, dempsey is garbage ok. marciano had skills, i'll give him that but dempsey sucks ass. Tunney outboxed him twice, hell dempsey fought middleweights. Same with harry greb, he sucks ass too.

[hhascup]

that list is baed on a myth of a fighter, dempsey is garbage ok. marciano had skills, i'll give him that but dempsey sucks ass. Tunney outboxed him twice, hell dempsey fought middleweights. Same with harry greb, he sucks ass too.

Yes Tunney did outbox Dempsey twice. In fact Dempsey only won 1 round in the 20 they fought. BUT, Dempsey didn't box for 3 years before the 1st Tunney bout, and he wasn't the same as he was in the late teens and early twenty's.

As far as Harry Greb goes, he was a middleweight who fought anyone. He actually beat Tunney once and boxed with 1 eye. Greb is one of the all-time Greats!

Greb only lost 21 times in his 299 bouts.

[brownpimp88]

watch greb in action, then watch the other greats, you can see all the holes in greb's game. you cant get all info off sites, you have to watch and see who really is legit. I praise pep, i admit marciano was good, dempsey and greb, not really, they suck.

[hhascup]

watch greb in action, then watch the other greats, you can see all the holes in greb's game. you cant get all info off sites, you have to watch and see who really is legit. I praise pep, i admit marciano was good, dempsey and greb, not really, they suck.

I have all the tapes of Dempsey, Greb and all the other Greats as well. You can see that the film speed isn't the same as it is today, BUT I still have to give credit to both of them. They were two of the all-time Greats and most of the experts, if not all of them will agree.

[brownpimp88]

I have all the tapes of Dempsey, Greb and all the other Greats as well. You can see that the film speed isn't the same as it is today, BUT I still have to give credit to both of them. They were two of the all-time Greats and most of the experts, if not all of them will agree.

True fans know that hagler is the real best 160 champ. Dempsey was a brawler, he's not that good. I dont see why its hard to not get. Pep has skill, tyson has skill, pernell is god, rocky had power, these guys u talk about just have old school myths.

[hhascup]

True fans know that hagler is the real best 160 champ. Dempsey was a brawler, he's not that good. I dont see why its hard to not get. Pep has skill, tyson has skill, pernell is god, rocky had power, these guys u talk about just have old school myths.

Well maybe you know more then all the experts. Here's several lists of the all-time Greats:

All Time Heavyweight Ratings:


1.Ali
2.Louis
3.Liston
4.Foreman
5.Tyson
6.Tunney
7.Dempsey
8.Johnson
9.Marciano
10.Frazier
11.Holmes
12.Jeffries
13.Walcott
14.Corbett
15.Patterson
16.Charles
17.Schmeling
18.Holyfield


1 -
2 -
3 -
4 -
5 -
6 -
7 -
8 - >
9 -
10 -


>

1. Muhammad Ali - Simply The Greatest, he fought every deserving contender in an era absolutely crammed with them. Also, earns points as the first man in history to win the title three times.

2. Jack Johnson - Way ahead of his time, he was a defensive master. Neither before or since has a heavyweight champion been so blessed in the ability of avoiding blows. Also had hurtful punching power.

3. Jack Dempsey - Revolutionised the sport with his savage fighting style. Also had an absolutely granite jaw.

4. Joe Louis - The longest reign in heavyweight history - an astonishing, never to be beaten, record 25 title defences. Pure one punch KO power, never wasted a shot.

5. Rocky Marciano - Retired unbeaten! Seemingly impossible to hurt. Also had endless stamina and vicious punching power.

6. George Foreman - The oldest heavyweight champion in history. Had freakish strength and thudding punch power. Also had more stamina in later career. Only ever stopped once, by the guy at the top of this list.

7. Larry Holmes - Vastly underrated, second only to Louis in number of title defences. Possibly possessed the finest jab in heavyweight history.

8. Sonny Liston - Had sheer brute force and power. Also a decent boxer, with a ramrod of a jab. Was at his peak in late 1950’s, an old man against Clay/Ali.

9. Joe Frazier - Owned probably the best left hook in heavyweight boxing. Also had amazing heart and an unlimited ability at taking punishment.

10. Evander Holyfield - Proved all his critics wrong when they said he wasn’t big enough. Used incredible guts and courage to defeat the huge Rid**** Bowe. Also shocked the world by smashing Tyson.



THE TOP 20 HEAVYWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. George Foreman
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Sonny Liston
8. Jim Jeffries
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Mike Tyson
11. Rocky Marciano
12. Joe Frazier
13. Rid**** Bowe
14. Evander Holyfield
15. Sam Langford
16. Gene Tunney
17. James J. Corbett
18. Ezzard Charles
19. Jersey Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

Here's Bert Sugar's list:

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Johnson
4. Dempsey
5. Tunney
6. Marciano
7. Charles
8. Foreman
9. Frazier
10. Holmes

Historians Rankings


(Please Note The Dates)


Nat Fleischer, Founder of Ring ****zine, 1958, 1971.

1.Jack Johnson
2.Jim Jeffries
3.Bob Fitzsimmons
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Jim Corbett
6.Joe Louis
7.Sam Langford
8.Gene Tunney
9.Max Schemling
10.Rocky Marciano


Charley Rose, 1968
1.Sam Langford
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Joe Louis
5.Jim Jeffries
6.Gene Tunney
7.Sam McVey
8.Rocky Marciano
9.Jim Corbett
10.Max Baer

World Boxing 1974 Readers Poll
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Rocky Marciano
4.Jack Johnson
5.Muhammad Ali
6.Joe Frazier
7.Gene Tunney
8.Jim Jeffries
9.Sonny Liston
10.Ezzard Charles


Nat Loubet, 1975
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Jim Jeffries
4.Jack Johnson
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Gene Tunney
7.Bob Fitzsimmons
8.James J. Corbett
9.Muhammad Ali
10.Joe Frazier



John Durant -Author of "The Heavyweight Champions" (1976)

1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Muhammad Ali
5.Gene Tunney
6.Joe Frazier
7.Jim Jeffries
8.James J. Corbett
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Max Schemling



Bill Brennan 1978 (Former President of the WBA)

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Jim Jeffries
7.Max Schemeling
8.Rocky Marciano
9.James J. Corebett
10.Bob Fitzsimmons



Big Book of Boxing Reader Poll, 1978

1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Rocky Marciano
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Jack Johnson
6.Gene Tunney
7.Joe Frazier
8.Jim Jeffries
9.Ezzard Charles
10.Sonny Liston



Bert Sugar, 1991

1.Jack Dempsey
2.Joe Louis
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Joe Frazier
8.Larry Holmes
9.Sonny Liston
10.Mike Tyson



Arthur Harris, 1992 (Nov 1992 Boxing Scene)

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Larry Holmes
8.Jersey Joe Walcott
9.Joe Frazier
10.Sonny Liston



Nigel Collins, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Evander Holyfield
4.Larry Holmes
5.George Foreman
6.Jack Johnson
7.Rocky Marciano
8.Joe Frazier
9.Jack Dempsey
10.Sonny Liston



Herbert Goldman, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Sonny Liston
4.Mike Tyson
5.Larry Holmes
6.Jack Johnson
7.Jack Dempsey
8.George Foreman
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Joe Frazier




Steve Farhood, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Johnson
4.Larry Holmes
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Jack Dempsey
7.Jim Jeffries
8.Evander Holyfield
9.Mike Tyson
10.George Foreman



BBC Sports, 2004

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Johnson
4.Larry Holmes
5.Jack Dempsey
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Lennox Lewis
8.Mike Tyson
9.George Foreman
10.Evander Holyfield



IBRO Member Poll, 2005

1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Jack Johnson
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Larry Holmes
7.James Jeffries
8.George Foreman
9.Sonny Liston
10.Joe Frazier



Tracy Callis
Heavyweights:

1.Jim Jeffries
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Joe Louis
5.Muhammad Ali
6.Gene Tunney
7.Jim Corbett
8.Sonny Liston
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Larry Holmes

ALL-TIME POUND-FOR-POUND BOXERS

Max Kellerman:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Sam Langford
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Roberto Duran
8. Willie Pep
9. Benny Leonard
10. Ezzard Charles
10a. Jimmy Wilde


Tony Atlas:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Benny Leonard
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Mickey Walker
8. Roberto Duran
9. Gene Tunney
10. Carlos Monzon
10a. Joe Louis


ESPN.com:
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Alexis Arguello
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sugar Ray Robinson
5. Joe Louis
6. Roy Jones Jr.
7. Julio Cesar Chavez
8. Abe Attel
9. Ray Leonard
10. Rocky Marciano
10a. Wilfred Benitez

[brownpimp88]

so thats what you do, go by other people's opinion. When will you realize that by watching actual footage, hagler was better. You sound like an amatuer, hagler had better technique and power. Did greb even fight blacks?

[hhascup]

so thats what you do, go by other people's opinion. When will you realize that by watching actual footage, hagler was better. You sound like an amatuer, hagler had better technique and power. Did greb even fight blacks?

I was just giving you different opinon's of many other boxing experts. Hagler was a GREAT boxer, I think everyone will agree with that. I also have 1,000's of boxing films and I watch them all the time.

I am not saying that Greb was better, but he is the only one to beat Gene Tunney and he also held Tunney to a draw while being out weighed by over 10 pounds. At one time he fought 125 bouts, from 1918 to 1923, and lost only once. Greb beat Tommy Loughran 4 times, while holding him to a draw in another bout, they fought a total of 6 times. He wanted to box Dempsey, but Dempsey didn't want to box him. AND he did box Blacks.

Once again, I do agree that Hagler was one of the Greatest Middleweights of all times, BUT so was Harry Greb. Who was better, well they fought in different times, and we could go on and on about that.

As far as being an Amateur goes, most boxing experts that know me, consider me as one of the top boxing historians around today. Bert Sugar, Herb Goldman both have stated that many times.

[brownpimp88]

I was just giving you different opinon's of many other boxing experts. Hagler was a GREAT boxer, I think everyone will agree with that. I also have 1,000's of boxing films and I watch them all the time.

I am not saying that Greb was better, but he is the only one to beat Gene Tunney and he also held Tunney to a draw while being out weighed by over 10 pounds. At one time he fought 125 bouts, from 1918 to 1923, and lost only once. Greb beat Tommy Loughran 4 times, while holding him to a draw in another bout, they fought a total of 6 times. He wanted to box Dempsey, but Dempsey didn't want to box him. AND he did box Blacks.

Once again, I do agree that Hagler was one of the Greatest Middleweights of all times, BUT so was Harry Greb. Who was better, well they fought in different times, and we could go on and on about that.

As far as being an Amateur goes, most boxing experts that know me, consider me as one of the top boxing historians around today. Bert Sugar, Herb Goldman both have stated that many times.

The sport evolved son, it evolved. Would wilt chamberlain average 50 points per game nowadays, no. Would royce gracie dominate ufc nowadays, no. Do goalies in hockey still play without masks, no. Boxing is completely different now.

[Kid Achilles]

Pimp you're a ****ing moron, no offense meant. I actually think you may be a troll to be honest, just here to rile people up. Footage of Greb? You say you saw him in action? Nope, you're full of ****. Footage of Greb in a pro fight does not exist. There's only short clips of him shadowboxing and sparring, that's it, and you can't tell **** from that.

Dempsey a crude brawler? Looks like someone watched the first round of Dempsey-Willard and is judging a fighter's entire career and fighting by that moment.

You need to do your homework and shut the **** up, because the **** your talking stinks and I'm sick of the smell quite frankly. When guys like you with only a miniscule knowledge of boxing and boxing history start running their mouth and talking **** about legends, they need to be told off. You started with the disrespectful attitude by talking trash about Dempsey and Greb so I have no qualms about telling you to **** off.

For your information, Greb is considered by most historians to be one of the P4P greatest fighters of all time. He had an almost inhuman chin and stamina, and many who later lived to see SRR claimed that Greb was quicker of hand and foot than Sugar Ray. He had plenty of raw talent and a very unorthodox nonstop action style that made him a nightmare for anyone to fight, whether a boxer or a slugger. I don't think I know of a single respected historian who doesn't have Greb in their top ten P4P list, at least. At middleweight, he's without any argument a top five middleweight. Many have him at the #1 or #2 spot.

You can digest these facts while you're busing shuting the **** up and come back to me with an apology. Not to me, but to the great men who you've insulted.