Robinson and Marciano, The Heat Cheat

[The Old LefHook]

If not for the freak heat that cheated him out of a Maxim victory, Marciano would have been next on Ray's march. I think he would beat Marciano.

If Robinson had negotiated for a venue like San Francisco, he would have beaten Maxim. He had his eye on other rewards.

Let's say Robinson is survivor-smart negoitating for Marciano instead of monetarily rapacious, and negotiates for an outdoor fight where the weather is cool.

Because of the close call he just escaped with Maxim, even for Robinson, against the likes of Rocky, there would be no shame in a running style more similar to sugar Ray Leonard. If Robinson trains hards and puts victory over money, or at least even to it, he will almost surely beat Marciano.

[JAB5239]

If not for the freak heat that cheated him out of a Maxim victory, Marciano would have been next on Ray's march. I think he would beat Marciano.

If Robinson had negotiated for a venue like San Francisco, he would have beaten Maxim. He had his eye on other rewards.

Let's say Robinson is survivor-smart negoitating for Marciano instead of monetarily rapacious, and negotiates for an outdoor fight where the weather is cool.

Because of the close call he just escaped with Maxim, even for Robinson, against the likes of Rocky, there would be no shame in a running style more similar to sugar Ray Leonard. If Robinson trains hards and puts victory over money, or at least even to it, he will almost surely beat Marciano.

While Ray was a far greater fighter, I don't think he survives Marciano's pressure and power.

[rightsideup]

While Ray was a far greater fighter, I don't think he survives Marciano's pressure and power.

rocky might look bad at times but sooner or later i agree the pressure and power would stop ray.

[Tom Cruise]

While Ray was a far greater fighter, I don't think he survives Marciano's pressure and power.

Its a bad style for him anyway even without the the fact Marciano was naturally 3 (old) divisions bigger.

[ShoulderRoll]

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Marciano was being outboxed by light heavyweight Ezzard Charles and even an old Archie Moore before he dropped them.

Boxers were his weakness. Ray Robinson would have had a chance.

[JAB5239]

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Marciano was being outboxed by light heavyweight Ezzard Charles and even an old Archie Moore before he dropped them.

Boxers were his weakness. Ray Robinson would have had a chance.

True, but both punched much harder than Robinson.

[juggernaut666]

If Lamotta beat SRR and made him struggle with several fights ,its pretty obvious how big of a mis match this actually is. Look how Turpin also grinded SRR up on the inside with relentless pressure .

[Ray Corso]

First lets get one thing straightened out on the rookies comments!
No One during LaMotta's reign wanted any part of him, he was the dominate Middleweight Champ with a high skill level it's just not recognized by novice boxing fans who only recognize a stand up styled boxer as the ONLY talent!
Sugar beat Jake enough times to prove his power, skills and willingness was more than Jake could handle. Funny how pressure fighters like Marciano and LaMotta and Dempsey are sold short by the short minded, non educated fan!

The problem Sugar would have with Marciano is that Sugars power won't translate to a 190lb fighter that can take abuse and shell out vicious punches.
Yes the Ol' Mongoose did well but remember it didn't last long. Maxim was a good puncher but back then same day weigh ins meant two good meals prior to bell time re hydrated a 175lbs to 178-80 tops. Joey was not a puncher that could come close to Marciano's.
Walcott and Charles in their primes were outstanding champions and Charles could have given Rocky a great challenge a few years earlier than they met.
The most Robinson could carry might be 163 lbs that could be less 30lbs to Rockys weight.

"Turpin also grinded SRR up on the inside with relentless pressure" .

Another bold statement that leads folks to believe that Turpin all be it a very good skilled fighter could handle Sugar with ease!
Facts are Sugar fought once a week while on his 7 week "tour" of Europe and Turpin was the last bout there. In the rematch Turpin was KO'd in 10 to loose in his only defense.

I doubt that Sugar would take the challenge that the Heavyweight Champion would offer. I think most educated boxing fans and boxing experts agree that from 140 through 160 that Robinson is the supreme physical and mental great and when considering his experience gained over his great career
he is easily the p4p king and TBE in the sport.
Marciano was an animal in the ring and defeated fighters who were more well rounded and had more experience than he did but he was one of the toughest and meanest men to ever lace the gloves up.

Ray

[roxy]

I don't think the fighters planned ahead for a hot day. Either way it was just as hot for both fighters in those fights. It came down to conditioning.

[Ray Corso]

It's not as easy as that (conditioning) by the 10th round the ref was replaced.
People at ringside were feinting and ambulances were coming to the event non stop.
The scoring at the time Sugar retired was all in his favor 10-3, 9-3-1, 7-3-3.
At 104 degrees and giving away 20+ pounds it wasn't over all conditioning it was the bigger man maintain more strength and the smaller man not sustaining
enough fluids. You can only drink so much water in between rounds, if you over do it you will get stomach craps and that will eliminate your movement and power.

Robinson was known to be one of the greatest conditioned athletes of all time.
Ray