Robinson and Marciano, The Heat Cheat

[juggernaut666]

It's not as easy as that (conditioning) by the 10th round the ref was replaced.
People at ringside were feinting and ambulances were coming to the event non stop.
The scoring at the time Sugar retired was all in his favor 10-3, 9-3-1, 7-3-3.
At 104 degrees and giving away 20+ pounds it wasn't over all conditioning it was the bigger man maintain more strength and the smaller man not sustaining
enough fluids. You can only drink so much water in between rounds, if you over do it you will get stomach craps and that will eliminate your movement and power.

Robinson was known to be one of the greatest conditioned athletes of all time.
Ray

Another OLD myth...actually not drinking ENOUGH water will cramp you up ,not the other way around.Modern science has proved this to be a FACT. not enough hydration tightens the mucle which causes cramps,any trainer will know this,thats why many guys are carrying the gallon water jugs in a gym. Drinking more water than drinking less is certainly common sense because more fluids will be benficial for all the muscles, it would have little bearing on your stomach unless one is drinking a gallon of it. more fluids in the system gives the muscles more working ,sustainability.....


The other things you stated is basically moot ppoints..Im pretty sure Marciano doesn't struggle with anyone top guy SRR fought .and if you think he does you're a bigger fool than I previous thought. How you cant see that we are comparing SRR to Marciano,is still mind boggling? You continue to bring dumb points in that has nothing to do with what Marciano would do to a SRR himself and as USUAL make accusations of somehow we are not given credit to SRR,who we all know you love along with Ali so anything remotely resembling reality will be an argument for you because lets be real,you don't actually like reality,you like to fixate and inflate what is true and what is not..Go figure?

[The Old LefHook]

Robinson will, of course, forego all infighting. To clinch is sin. The ropes are sinful.

And there must be no fire fights with Rocky. Robinson had every ability that Ali or Leonard possessed to stay on the outside and dominate from there. In and out, in and gone. I can see Marciano missing a lot more punches than usual from three or four feet, and he had a high average on that anyway.

Robinson's legs were thin as reeds. That is a major concern. One is again and again shocked in film and print by the thinness of his calves and hams. A little additional weight on those skinny legs would go a long way.

This is not a P4P match, so there will be no theoretical scaling of sugar up to heavyweight. He has to do what he can to add a few pounds in the right places. Modern trainers are probably more efficient at that than the old timers.

Rocky was not a full-steam-ahead, chugging mauler like Frazier. He was patient. Rocky has to change his own normal game plan to run Robinson down. Unless Robinson gets foolish and tries to land too many punches in a row, starts clinching, lays on the ropes or tires badly, he can thwart Rocky offensively and stay away while landing his own brief combos.

Robinson would have to maintain his survivor discipline and not let temporary success in the ring go to his head. I think the largest question is whether Robinson has the temperament to fight this way for fifteen rounds. If he does, and sticks to the game plan, he is likely to win a unanimous decision.

[Ray Corso]

............."you don't actually like reality,you like to fixate and inflate what is true and what is not..Go figure"?.............hahahahaha reality? Really .......

juggy says;
My daddy was a world wide judo competitor...
My uncle (no name) trained Bowe..........
I (juggy) knocked out a Wlad sparring partner...........
I (you guessed it) trained a state champion............

You talking about REALITY! You don't know what it means.
How would you know what goes on in a corner the only corner you were ever in was the "dunce corner" your teachers put you in you moron! Reality hahaha...

You ever going to answer those questions mister "reality"? you make elroid sound intelligent !
Ray

[Zaroku]

It is an unfair comparison. SRR would have held his own, but Marciano would have hit him, and hurt him.

P4p Robinson better. Robinson a Sherman tank, Marciano a German Pranzer!

.

[The Old LefHook]

If anything, the thing that will kill Robinson is that he always comes to fight. Pure and simple, he has to outpoint Rocky and cannot go to war with him.

People seem awful sure that Rocky will hit Ray enough. Those reed legs of Robinson's mean a ribcage with bones just as slim. He has to fight Rocky like Leonard fought Duran the second time, and hardly get touched. Rocky is a lot slower on his feet than Duran, he throws a lot of wild punches.

I do not believe Rocky will prove to be a good tracker. Moore and Charles and Walcott did not run from him, they were there for him as they outboxred him. This wore them down until they were easy targets. They could clinch with him on equal terms, even lay on the ropes with him sometimes. Ray has none of those options.

Marciano is the only heavyweight he should ever fight. He would have surrendered the light heavyweight crown right after mugging Maxim for it. Three months after his Maxim fight Marciano won the heavyweight title from Walcott. Perfect opportunity. There would be a big blemish on the Marciano legend, but I believe he would have come back to beat all challengers for the heavyweight title to win it a second time, making himself the first man to do that.

Robinson's reputation would be untouchable, out of reach, even in the minds of those who now question it.

[NChristo]

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Marciano was being outboxed by light heavyweight Ezzard Charles and even an old Archie Moore before he dropped them.

Boxers were his weakness. Ray Robinson would have had a chance.

Right but if you take that approach then you have the uneasy question of asking if Robinson was that much better then Charles ?, I don't think so, Charles was obviously phenomenal, old Archie Moore was as crafty as they come and pulled everything out the bag to survive but couldn't.

Robinson can't stay on the outside for 15 rounds with Marciano, no one could, he'd catch up too him at some point whether early or late, if it's early and Robinson survives then he's going to take some damage which obviously isn't going too help in the long run, can only see a Rocky win.

[The Old LefHook]

Robinson will need to show the strategic ability to change even his footwork and his stance at times. It is a very tall order.

Whenever Robinson backs off in a fight, it is just for a moment, it is never to run. He drops his guard for about two seconds, resets and goes back at it. Robinson did not move in big circles a la Ali or Leonard for very long at a time, if at all. It may be fair to say he did not do that kind of sustained circular movement where one breaks classic stance altogether, more or less squares up, and circles with dizzying evasion on the outside. There was no need for the prideful warrior Robinson to fight that way with any of the opponents who outweighed him only by 5-20 pounds.

He seemed to use this kind of movement once in while, in his younger years, as a show move, but not a serious, sustained tactic. Whether he was capable of adapting this tactic to wider use, is anyone's guess, but I would say his chance of winning the fight probably depends on it. He cannot take on Marciano like a faster, smoother version of Charles and win the fight. He would have to be a version of sugar Ray Leonard, twenty-five years ahead of his time.

Maybe Robinson would watch Dempsey/Tunney film, and that would be enough.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

If Lamotta beat SRR and made him struggle with several fights ,its pretty obvious how big of a mis match this actually is. Look how Turpin also grinded SRR up on the inside with relentless pressure .

I agree. Marciano would just be too much and SRR's power wouldn't faze him at all. This one would be a cake walk and probably over inside of six rounds. Robinson was as great as they come, but come on. He'd be giving up thirty pounds to a great heavyweight champion who could knock through walls with his punches. He busted a speed bag with a six-inch punch from what I've read. One good shot and Ray's done. Any middleweight would be. It's just not feasible.

[just the facts]

Maxim was rumored to have said "Heat? The was no air conditioning in my corner either"

[joeandthebums]

No One during LaMotta's reign wanted any part of him

Everybody wanted LaMotta during his reign, all of 20 months.

The problem was that LaMotta had climbed the mountain and never had that same pre-championship mentality.

It took him 13 months to make his first defense, far longer than the stipulated 6 months requirement - based on an initial extension given because of his poor showing on returning to the ring 6 months after winning the title.

LaMotta was not an avoided champion, he had plenty of contenders knocking on his door.

He did meet the top contenders of the time; Laurent Dauthuille, Tiberio Mitri and eventually Sugar Ray Robinson.

The only one who missed out was Dave Sands, but given the time it took Robinson to get LaMotta in the ring, an unfortunate miss.