Rocky Marciano VS Wladimir Klitschko.

[Bundana]

Walcott retired and came back a better fighter, taking it more serious than he ever had. He himself would tell you his prime came later in his career.

Charles was finished. He was losing constantly after the Rock, and retired in a wheelchair.

they didnรยรยรยรยขรยรยขรยรยรยรยฌรยรยขรยรยรยรยขt all put on tons of weight. They just stopped cutting. Usyk and Holyfield รยรยรยรยขรยรยขรยรยรยรยฌรยรยรยรยbulked upรยรยรยรยขรยรยขรยรยรยรยฌรยรยรยรย with drugs. It doesnรยรยรยรยขรยรยขรยรยรยรยฌรยรยขรยรยรยรยขt help, its just a myth - there is no evidence it helped them.

Spinks beats Holmes barely weighing 200 lbs. Thats what a lhw weighs when he eats as much as he wants. They donรยรยรยรยขรยรยขรยรยรยรยฌรยรยขรยรยรยรยขt go from 175 to 225 naturally. And that mass isnรยรยรยรยขรยรยขรยรยรยรยฌรยรยขรยรยรยรยขt helping them, its taking away their beat assets, speed and stamina.

spinks dominated Holmes in fight 1, he didnรยรยรยรยขรยรยขรยรยรยรยฌรยรยขรยรยรยรยขt just beat him. If you think otherwise WATCH IT AGAIN. Fight 2 was closer.

spinks crushed Cooney. Who is 6 ft 6. The size gap is massive.

the rhetoric you are spitting about the rock is just the age old misinformation. Thats what tells me you havent actually observed it all yourself. Because I have heard it all before.

Marciano beat guys that were stylistically nightmares for him and gets no credit. You guys act like light heavies havent washed heavies before. They were some of Ali and Louisรยขรยรย toughest bouts, they were some of the best champs of the 90s. And if you say รขยยthey bulked upรขยย sure they did, but the weight gap was still the same. Foreman was 250+ lbs, Bowe is 235+ Holyfield only weighed 210 in his prime.

if only they gave Marciano big punching bags for him to demolish, all the boxing fans that fixate on size would be shut up instantly. Marcianos hardest work was just getting them to sit still not for his lack of strength and power.

furthermore, its actually extremely rare where a heavyweight wins because he was รยขรยรยtoo bigรยขรยรย. Its not that common. Ability shines above all else. We have boatloads of evidence for this. Even the best big guys lost to small guys. Foreman and young??? Lewis and mcall/rahman?? Brewster??? Didnรยขรยรยt cunningham almost spark a prime Fury??

I find it absurd that you find it absurd that I donรยขรยรยt see why size matters so much at heavyweight when we have MULTIPLE ERAS of evidence that proves my point, and you have 0 to prove yours.

yes weight classes matter when human beings are scaling proportionately. By the time we get to heavyweight, many men are only there because of height or just being fat. The builds vary drastically. Some have peanut heads and skinny arms with big bellies.

Here we go again!

I wonder, why it gives you so much pleasure, to denigrate everyone and everything new, especially the HWs? You're a knowledgeable, intelligent (I assume!) young man - and yet in post after post, you come up with the most absurd claims, with no basis in reality.

You could use your considerable knowledge to engage in some serious discussions here, but instead you chose to come up with these weird opinions - which, deep down, you must know are nonsensical. Why?

[Willie Pep 229]

No they didnt ,"stop cutting" Spinks gained 30lbs under nutritionist Mackie Shilstone.

Holyfield worked like a dog on a Nautilus machine he gained22lbs.

Moorer gained 25lbs

Haye gained 18lbs

Usyk gained 21lbs .

And in each case this is muscle we are talking about.

If the extra muscle didnt help them?
Why did they add it?
Why were they successful carrying it?

Holyfield is 6 '2 1/2" 78" reach

Usyk is 6'3" 78" reach

Moorer 6'2" 78"reach

Spinks 6'2 1/2 76" "reach

Haye 6'3" 78" reach

Spinks beat Holmes because Holmes was at the end of the trail and he barely managed it.Prime Holmes beats him up.
Spinks took on the washed up Cooney ,because he had ducked and avoided his no1 Tony Tucker ,who may well have beaten him.

All these men deliberately added muscle to their frames to take on the big guys.
Charles had M S, Marciano didn't put him in a wheelchair which is what you are implying ,and he was retired for some years before his mobility left him.
Charles who was at his best at LHVY gave Marciano a hell of a fight.

Walcott who was 38 years old gave Marciano life and death,flooring him.

Forty One years old Moore188lbs dropped Marciano and stunned him, Rocky said he blacked out for a few seconds,when he got up he was disorientated enough to start for the ropes,believing he was entitled to a standing count,which was waived for title fights.

All these men I have named are between 4 and 5 inches taller than Marciano.
All these men have between 8 to ten inches of reach on him.

Marciano never proved himself against ; A modern sized heavyweight of class and power ,his best wins are over aging men who were past prime .

Marciano faced very, very few top level heavyweight punchers and no ATG ones.

Marciano was cut in all his major fights.

"the rhetoric you are spitting about the rock is just the age old misinformation. Thats what tells me you havent actually observed it all yourself. Because I have heard it all before."

I'm willing to bet I've seen more footage of your hero than you have.

Now point out any,"misinformation" in my post,show us where I am not presenting facts?
You are in denial.and now getting annoyed because I disagree with you, and you have no answer,and no rebuttal to my facts.

Not MS . . . In 1968, Charles was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, also known as Lou Gehrig's disease. The disease affected Charles' legs and eventually left him completely disabled.

[Ivich]

Not MS . . . In 1968, Charles was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, also known as Lou Gehrig's disease. The disease affected Charles' legs and eventually left him completely disabled.

I knew it was a form of sclerosis A nephew of mine, a very fine pianist has MS. injections keep it under control;

[them_apples]

No they didnt ,"stop cutting" Spinks gained 30lbs under nutritionist Mackie Shilstone.

Holyfield worked like a dog on a Nautilus machine he gained22lbs.

Moorer gained 25lbs

Haye gained 18lbs

Usyk gained 21lbs .

And in each case this is muscle we are talking about.

If the extra muscle didnt help them?
Why did they add it?
Why were they successful carrying it?

Holyfield is 6 '2 1/2" 78" reach

Usyk is 6'3" 78" reach

Moorer 6'2" 78"reach

Spinks 6'2 1/2 76" "reach

Haye 6'3" 78" reach

Spinks beat Holmes because Holmes was at the end of the trail and he barely managed it.Prime Holmes beats him up.
Spinks took on the washed up Cooney ,because he had ducked and avoided his no1 Tony Tucker ,who may well have beaten him.

All these men deliberately added muscle to their frames to take on the big guys.
Charles had M S, Marciano didn't put him in a wheelchair which is what you are implying ,and he was retired for some years before his mobility left him.
Charles who was at his best at LHVY gave Marciano a hell of a fight.

Walcott who was 38 years old gave Marciano life and death,flooring him.

Forty One years old Moore188lbs dropped Marciano and stunned him, Rocky said he blacked out for a few seconds,when he got up he was disorientated enough to start for the ropes,believing he was entitled to a standing count,which was waived for title fights.

All these men I have named are between 4 and 5 inches taller than Marciano.
All these men have between 8 to ten inches of reach on him.

Marciano never proved himself against ; A modern sized heavyweight of class and power ,his best wins are over aging men who were past prime .

Marciano faced very, very few top level heavyweight punchers and no ATG ones.

Marciano was cut in all his major fights.

"the rhetoric you are spitting about the rock is just the age old misinformation. Thats what tells me you havent actually observed it all yourself. Because I have heard it all before."

I'm willing to bet I've seen more footage of your hero than you have.

Now point out any,"misinformation" in my post,show us where I am not presenting facts?
You are in denial.and now getting annoyed because I disagree with you, and you have no answer,and no rebuttal to my facts.

you gain weight by not cutting. Thats why its a weight cut. Most light heavies walk around at 200 or even more, and always have.

you can tell by Looking at before and afters who was รขย€ยœputting onรขย€ย weight.

Holyfield and Usyk.

canรขย€ย™t prove it but my observation = peds

Moorerรขย€ยฆhes only a lhw cause he was young, he was always a small heavy.

[Ivich]

you gain weight by not cutting. Thats why its a weight cut. Most light heavies walk around at 200 or even more, and always have.

you can tell by Looking at before and afters who was รขยยputting onรขยย weight.

Holyfield and Usyk.

canรขยยt prove it but my observation = peds

Moorerรขยยฆhes only a lhw cause he was young, he was always a small heavy.

Spinks and Holyfield went on well publicised training regimes that caused them to muscle up and gain weight.
You are the one ,the only one, calling their efforts," not cutting weight .Denial again.

Moorer wasn't a small heavyweight,at 6 ft 2in he went from213 up to 251lbs,bigger than Max Baer.

Hitting bags ,little or large means nothing,they aren't hitting back!
Now address my questions.

If gaining weight isn't that important, why has every lhy/cruiser who has been successful at heavyweight done it?
Are they not as clued up on the subject as you?

Explain where I have indulged in misinformation?

Where have I used rhetoric?

Where have I not presented facts to prove my points?

Point it out.

[QueensburyRules]

They say Vlad can punch hard. He sure punches the canvas hard.

- - Never one punched to Bolivia via Timbuktu like U know who who ducked Wlad.

Rocky overmatched by most cruisers of today, ie OP I single digit I

[Slugfester]

I made a mistake. What I meant to ask was:

Would fighters of the 30's do the same thing to fighters from the 50's and 60's as the 50's and 60's would do to current fighters? They are older after all. What is your historical cutoff for this assumed superiority?

I can't wait to see Marvin Hart rough up Tyson Fury. He deserves it. That is one exciting matchup though. When Marv gets inside--it's watch out Fury, eh!

Ezzard Charles is rated awfully high, too, so why not let Tommy Burns feed on the latecomer? Tommy will thrash him well given respective eras alone.

I am starting to see the sense of your theory now.

[them_apples]

I made a mistake. What I meant to ask was:

Would fighters of the 30's do the same thing to fighters from the 50's and 60's as the 50's and 60's would do to current fighters? They are older after all. What is your historical cutoff for this assumed superiority?

I can't wait to see Marvin Hart rough up Tyson Fury. He deserves it. That is one exciting matchup though. When Marv gets inside--it's watch out Fury, eh!

Ezzard Charles is rated awfully high, too, so why not let Tommy Burns feed on the latecomer? Tommy will thrash him well given respective eras alone.

I am starting to see the sense of your theory now.

My buddy was 226 before his wedding. Now he is 186 and still has 15 lbs to go.

so apparently before his wedding he was bigger than Tyson, then hopefully if the goal is met on wedding day, he will be about Marvin Haglers size.

if only thats how easy it was.

Moorer was never bigger than Max Baer, we saw him Fight George and he looked like his step child.

and no, Georges belly in the 90s is not the reason for this size disparity.

[Ivich]

My buddy was 226 before his wedding. Now he is 186 and still has 15 lbs to go.

so apparently before his wedding he was bigger than Tyson, then hopefully if the goal is met on wedding day, he will be about Marvin Haglers size.

if only thats how easy it was.

Moorer was never bigger than Max Baer, we saw him Fight George and he looked like his step child.

and no, Georges belly in the 90s is not the reason for this size disparity.

Moorer was 213 lbs for his 1st heavyweight fight.he fought up to 251 lbs.
Baer was
203lbs for Schaaf
209 1/2lbs when he won the title from Carnera.
210 1/2lbs when he lost it to Braddock.

Moorer was 214lbs when he won the title from Holyfield.3 1/2lbs heavier than Baer's winning effort.

222lbs when he lost it to Foreman.11 1/2lbs heavier than Baer's losing effort.

Still waiting for your answers to my questions.

[Ascended]

Look how novice like these guys we're and all the mistakes no one even made amateurs fighting like that in the 70s-80s yet rock can beat wlad fighting like that?, how?, you people are lunatic idiots on this site, as I said no trainer would let him leave the gym fighting like that., how novice like these guys we're and all the mistakes no one even made amateurs fighting like that in the 70s-80s yet rock can beat Toney fighting like that?, how?, you people are lunatic idiots on this site, as I said no trainer would let him leave the gym fighting like that