Did Jack Johnson really throw the fight against Willard?

[fanofslug]

I watched some footage of the fight and it went for like 26 rounds? Why would Johnson work so hard and then throw the fight? Was this just an excuse for Johnson? I've never read anyone refute his claims since it's a pretty old fight and Jess wasn't on print denying any of this?

[billeau2]

I watched some footage of the fight and it went for like 26 rounds? Why would Johnson work so hard and then throw the fight? Was this just an excuse for Johnson? I've never read anyone refute his claims since it's a pretty old fight and Jess wasn't on print denying any of this?

There is a very rational explanation for Johnson's behavoir, including why he allegedly had someone ask his wife to leave the arena: It was really hot, Johnson had not been training well, he got tired. he knew that Willard was still strong enough to keep fighting if nothing else...he could not knock Willard out, end of story...

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all"---- George Patton

[PitbullParsons]

There is a very rational explanation for Johnson's behavoir, including why he allegedly had someone ask his wife to leave the arena: It was really hot, Johnson had not been training well, he got tired. he knew that Willard was still strong enough to keep fighting if nothing else...he could not knock Willard out, end of story...

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all"---- George Patton

Exactly.

The fact that Johnson couldn't really do anything to stop Willard vs how quick Dempsey went through him I don't see the argument when people say Johnson would have beat Dempsey. Yes it would have been a good fight but Dempsey was too much for Johnson.

[Daddy T]

he was out of shape and past it and got beat fair and square and just refused to admit as much. That is all.

[billeau2]

he was out of shape and past it and got beat fair and square and just refused to admit as much. That is all.

Lol...I have a theory. I don't know this but I figure that sometime after the fight some joe gets the idea that Johnson threw the fight...looks at a picture of Johnson shielding his eyes on the canvas...goes to Johnson and asks leading questions to the effect of: "gee lil arthur...did you throw this fight, given your position on the mat where it looked like you signaled and were just waiting for the count?" So johnson of course says "oh yeah, you heard about that?"

I don't know when this theory was first proposed, but I have a feeling it surfaced some time after the fight.

[BKM-]

He had too much pride to admit that he got KTFO which is clear to see. He shouldn't have been because he was past his prime and still dominated the fight against a younger, bigger fighter for 26 rounds.

[ShoulderRoll]

The fact that Johnson couldn't really do anything to stop Willard vs how quick Dempsey went through him I don't see the argument when people say Johnson would have beat Dempsey. Yes it would have been a good fight but Dempsey was too much for Johnson.

That was an old Jack Johnson who was fat and didn't bother to train properly (and even then he still managed to win almost every round.)

The fight has zero bearing on how a prime Johnson might have done against Dempsey.

[billeau2]

That was an old Jack Johnson who was fat and didn't bother to train properly (and even then he still managed to win almost every round.)

The fight has zero bearing on how a prime Johnson might have done against Dempsey.

Agreed.

A fight between prime Johnson and Dempsey would have been much more integral to boxing than most could even imagine because Dempsey, in the methods he outlines and how he fights was in a sense, the first modern fighting heavy weight. before Jack fighters did not square up and come in directly, not in the heavyweight division.

Johnson was an ambassador for the old ways...He hever was square unless he was coming in to punch, he maintained a distance where he was profiled, not squared up to his man, and he spent a lot of time setting traps that would allow him to catch his man off balance at the distance where modern heavyweights usually start exhanging from.

Would Johnson be able to pick off Dempsey with his extended guard? before Jack closed in? Would he trap dempsey and knock him down from being off balance? Would Dempsey be able to cut off Johnson? Remember? one reason why I agree with Shoulder Roll is the Tunney fight....Tunney fought in a manner very much how Johnson would fight. Would Jack be able to find Johnson's body with his hooking techniques...and who would control the grapple?

Sometimes I think Tunney is better than Johnson, sometimes not...I admit to being conflicted! but no matter...we do know that Dempsey was beat by Tunney in a manner that was similar in many respects to how johnson would fight. This would be a great fight.

[Scott9945]

The fight has zero bearing on how a prime Johnson might have done against Dempsey.

Absolutely. It's like saying that the Louis-Marciano fight proved that Joe could never beat Ali. Completely unrelated.

[phallus]

Exactly.

The fact that Johnson couldn't really do anything to stop Willard vs how quick Dempsey went through him I don't see the argument when people say Johnson would have beat Dempsey. Yes it would have been a good fight but Dempsey was too much for Johnson.

He had too much pride to admit that he got KTFO which is clear to see. He shouldn't have been because he was past his prime and still dominated the fight against a younger, bigger fighter for 26 rounds.

Absolutely. It's like saying that the Louis-Marciano fight proved that Joe could never beat Ali. Completely unrelated.

considering johnson was 38 years old and out of shape at the time of the fight, i'd say he did pretty well to last 26 rounds with willard. the tunney fight gets me thinking though, tunney did fight in a similar style to johnson, and prime dempsey was eventually able to get inside and put him on the canvas. 15 rounds is an awful long time when you're in a ring with jack dempsey, i think somewhere in there jack gets to him, but a fight between him and johnson would have been spectacular to watch