Who would win between Jack Dempsey and Vitali Klitschko

[Ben Bolt]

To be fair to Dempsey, let’s say he was born 1971 as Vitali. By today’s training standards (and perhaps with a bit of steroids), he could probably have swollen into a 200-210 lbs. all-muscled guy.
Though, I still think he would have been undersized in a tangle with Vitali.

It’s just hypothetical. What we believe, we believe. Yes, Willard was big (and brave), but I can’t see that a Willard born 1971 would have the same genetic conditions to become another Klitschko.

I do find most Klitschko fights boring to watch, but that’s not the same that I can’t appreciate their abilities and capacities. I think the bros have already proven that they belong among the all-time greats. (Time will tell, generally a champion’s reputation gets greater for every year that passes after he has hung up his gloves.)

And as much as I praise them, I do hope Povetkin will cause an upset tomorrow. Just to bring back some fire into the heavyweight division.

[Suckmedry]

One thing i do have to add though is that while Dempsey is suffering from a serious size disadvantage here, I think some people have it in their minds that this fight is a midget vs a giant.
Dempsey is 6''1, 180-190 lbs. Not a tremendously big man, but not small by any means, solid and broad. Klitschko stands 6''7 and weighs 250lbs, obviously a very big man, but if you have ever fought in the ring or on the street with a guy about 6'' taller you will know that while it is harder to connect on a taller guy like that, its not impossible and you can still land strikes to the jaw particuarly with a lot of leverage due to the angle. And there was no one probably in history besides Tyson that was as good as or better than Dempsey at launching those sweeping, powerful hooks up at a taller guys head as he exposed himself. Just something to think about and consider as its very likely here that even if Klit does prove to be too big for Dempsey he is going to have to eat some of Dempseys best shots before he does it.

And irrespective of if Dempsey is weighing in under 200, this guy had a HW punch.

[Scott9945]

People say

Lewis-Vitali-Wlad will win a lot of these H2H Match ups not because they are modern super heavys...

but because they are modern super heavys with IMMENSE SKILLS.

They are not only big but extremely skilled......... ATGS themselves.

Being modern had nothing to do with it.. Tyson Fury is big too.. David Price is 6'8. How will David Price do against Joe Frazier?

What about 254 Pound 6'8 Michael Grant vs Joe Louis?

I've got Frazier and Louis by KO every day of the week in those matchups.

[Cardinal Buck]

this guy schooled Jack Dempsey:


all 5'9, 30% body fat of "Fat Boy"

[bklynboy]

Your brain is not better able to handle the impact as you get bigger.

that is a bunch of nonsense.

I think its established fact. A knock-out is a concussion. A concussion occurs when your brain hits your skull. There isn't any training that can help your brain, the nerve cord or anything inside. The mass of klitshcko's skull isn't so much greater than Evander Holyfield's that it would help slow the acceleration of his skull. (Something with a greater mass is not accelerated as quickly as something with less mass).

A person with a bigger mass is better able to absorb a body shot but not a head shot. Why would you say that fat around the middle (see Arreolla) would help him better absorb a hook to the head? It wouldn't.

There comes a point where the mass of the skull doesn't increase significantly any more. As we get bigger (muscle) we get stronger. (Obviously a world-class welterweight hits harder than an untrained weightlifter who is 100 pounds heavier but that, of course, is different.) Secondly fat doesn't make us stronger. It's only plus is that with greater mass we're able to absorb more body shots.

Again. VK is not able to absorb more blows to the head from someone hitting as hard as Mike Tyson or Jack Dempsey than say a "smaller" Joe Louis or Evander Holyfield.

[bklynboy]

this guy schooled Jack Dempsey:


all 5'9, 30% body fat of "Fat Boy"

Yeah. I've wondered about that. You read that some of the fights were exhibitions, and that in other fights Dempsey rocked him all 4 rounds with hard punches and they were scored draws. I know little about him except from boxrec and in passing references in books.

I do see that he fought a lot of 4 round fights - way more than most other people. Anybody know more about him?

[billeau2]

I think its established fact. A knock-out is a concussion. A concussion occurs when your brain hits your skull. There isn't any training that can help your brain, the nerve cord or anything inside. The mass of klitshcko's skull isn't so much greater than Evander Holyfield's that it would help slow the acceleration of his skull. (Something with a greater mass is not accelerated as quickly as something with less mass).

A person with a bigger mass is better able to absorb a body shot but not a head shot. Why would you say that fat around the middle (see Arreolla) would help him better absorb a hook to the head? It wouldn't.

There comes a point where the mass of the skull doesn't increase significantly any more. As we get bigger (muscle) we get stronger. (Obviously a world-class welterweight hits harder than an untrained weightlifter who is 100 pounds heavier but that, of course, is different.) Secondly fat doesn't make us stronger. It's only plus is that with greater mass we're able to absorb more body shots.

Again. VK is not able to absorb more blows to the head from someone hitting as hard as Mike Tyson or Jack Dempsey than say a "smaller" Joe Louis or Evander Holyfield.

True.

There was an article about Chavez senior back in the day and it stated that he has an extra thick skull (not making this up) which was discovered during xrays. It was hypothesized that this allowed him to take punches better as a fighter....quite a bit better actually.

James Toney is another one who can take punches quite well. David Price by comparison not so well and he is much bigger than Toney.

Concussions are indeed caused by a "backlash" of the brain kicking around the skull after the blow. This is one reason why the old lead hand right, and the wing Chun type straight punch to the elbow of the chin, mandible process, can cause a KO with very little power if the blow is done right....This blow directly shoots the brain stem against the back of the skull at the shortest distance as compared to other blows.

[Cardinal Buck]

I think its established fact. A knock-out is a concussion. A concussion occurs when your brain hits your skull. There isn't any training that can help your brain, the nerve cord or anything inside. The mass of klitshcko's skull isn't so much greater than Evander Holyfield's that it would help slow the acceleration of his skull. (Something with a greater mass is not accelerated as quickly as something with less mass).

A person with a bigger mass is better able to absorb a body shot but not a head shot. Why would you say that fat around the middle (see Arreolla) would help him better absorb a hook to the head? It wouldn't.

There comes a point where the mass of the skull doesn't increase significantly any more. As we get bigger (muscle) we get stronger. (Obviously a world-class welterweight hits harder than an untrained weightlifter who is 100 pounds heavier but that, of course, is different.) Secondly fat doesn't make us stronger. It's only plus is that with greater mass we're able to absorb more body shots.

Again. VK is not able to absorb more blows to the head from someone hitting as hard as Mike Tyson or Jack Dempsey than say a "smaller" Joe Louis or Evander Holyfield.

This sounds good but we know it isn't true. Big guys with big necks and traps are usually the ones taking he'd shots the best. I'm thinking of McCall and Briggs circa 2006.

[Cardinal Buck]

True.

There was an article about Chavez senior back in the day and it stated that he has an extra thick skull (not making this up) which was discovered during xrays. It was hypothesized that this allowed him to take punches better as a fighter....quite a bit better actually.

James Toney is another one who can take punches quite well. David Price by comparison not so well and he is much bigger than Toney.

Concussions are indeed caused by a "backlash" of the brain kicking around the skull after the blow. This is one reason why the old lead hand right, and the wing Chun type straight punch to the elbow of the chin, mandible process, can cause a KO with very little power if the blow is done right....This blow directly shoots the brain stem against the back of the skull at the shortest distance as compared to other blows.

It's not fair to compare Toney and Price. Toney is cool as hell and Price is a nervous wreck. Price is also English, and none of them can take a punch.

[bklynboy]

This sounds good but we know it isn't true. Big guys with big necks and traps are usually the ones taking he'd shots the best. I'm thinking of McCall and Briggs circa 2006.

Yes. Neck muscles certainly help absorb punches. No doubt. But height and weight does not equal big neck muscles. You have to specifically work out your neck, doing bridges for example.

The point I'm making is that weight does not equal the ability to take a head shot. Nothing more. Nothing less. Obviously if Mike Tyson was 6-7 and 280 and built exactly the same way, with the same body fat, then he would be able to take a better punch. If Mike Tyson of 1989 walked into the ring with 60 extra pounds of fat around his middle then he would not be able to take a better punch.