Who was the greatest Light heavyweight?

[SBleeder]

As early as '42 Charles was a force at LHW when he drew with the very highly ranked Ken Overlin (a veteran with over 100 bouts) and taking out the also ranked Booker Beckwith and then defeated Joey Maxim twice who had proven his worth at this point by going on a decent little run against good fighters.

At the beginning of 1946: By Ring ****zine Moore was rated #1 LHW, Marshall #4 (Charles had also defeated Marshall when he was at his very best and was the rightful fighter for a title shot from Lesnevich that never came in 1943) and Billy Smith #9. Charles beat all of them that year. This moved him up to #2 LHW behind Billy Fox who hand't done much at all so I don't know how that was justified.

In 47' Moore was ranked #3 and Billy Smith #5, Marshall #7 Charles defeated all of them again. Moving him up to #1 LHW.

In '48, Moore was back at #2 LHW, so Charles beat him again.

Charles also beat Joey Maxim a mere year before he won the LHW title(against Lesneivich, the man who wouldn't give him a shot)

When Lesneivich was the LHW champion and would not face Charles, when they did eventually fight for a version of the HW title, Charles stopped him via a corner stoppage in a bout that basically took place at Light-Heavy.

Charles also has wins against people like Jimmy Bivins who were winning fights against the likes of Moore when he was at his peak which would make him one of the best LHW's in the world at this point.

So in his resume Charles has wins against plenty of HOF and World Champion opposition at LHW but his dismantling of the Top 20 ATG Moore across 3 fights is what really should count for the most here.

Moore x3 (LHW ATG, HOF)
Lloyd Marshall (HOF, #1 LHW)
Joey Maxim (HOF, LHW Champ)
Jimmy Bivins (HOF, #1 LHW)
Gus Les (LHW Champ)
Oakland Billy Smith, Beckwith and a bunch of other contenders.

Against most of these opponents he has more than one win.

Elmer Ray was no slouch either.

The Moore wins by themselves establish Charles as the GOAT LHW. Pretty much the only division where the #1 and #2 (IMO) of all time fought in their respective primes, and Charles won 'em all.

Obviously Archie is no Victor Claudio...

[Barn]

Elmer Ray was no slouch either.

The Moore wins by themselves establish Charles as the GOAT LHW. Pretty much the only division where the #1 and #2 (IMO) of all time fought in their respective primes, and Charles won 'em all.

Obviously Archie is no Victor Claudio...

I excluded Elmer Ray because he weighed in at like 190 a lot which I feel was moving too close to HW to be counted towards the Light-Heavy resume but yeah, Elmer Ray was a great fighter.

[New England]

What the ....?!

It's not that I question your knowledge at all as I know you are one of the most knowledgeable and nicest poster on the forum, but where did you pick up that list?

It's quite common knowledge that Fleischer loved and arguably overrated the oldtimers, but ... He can't be serious here..?

when i come across them, his "lists" are laughable.

[New England]

ezzard charles, archie moore, gene tunney, mike spinks, bob foster, superman jones

lots of gifted athletes fought there. men of that size can punch.

it's not a bad division. at times it suffered because fighters were going north to make that HW money.

[Scott9945]

then we have a misunderstanding....I never implied such...or never meant too. On the contrary my point is that the whole light heavy division is a division that is transitory. I also said and stand by the assertion that Moore was a monster at "light heavy" and could compete with the best at this weight.

Okay, we did have a misunderstanding. Sorry for my part in that.

I do however strongly disagree about Moorer's status among all time lightheavies. His resume was pathetic with a relatively small sampling at that weight. A nobody like Frankie Swindell had him almost out on his feet, and I have no doubt some of the better punching lightheavies would have flattened him for sure. Moorer had a shaky chin at any weight.

[billeau2]

Okay, we did have a misunderstanding. Sorry for my part in that.

I do however strongly disagree about Moorer's status among all time lightheavies. His resume was pathetic with a relatively small sampling at that weight. A nobody like Frankie Swindell had him almost out on his feet, and I have no doubt some of the better punching lightheavies would have flattened him for sure. Moorer had a shaky chin at any weight.

Thats cool.

[mickey malone]

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Gene Tunney
3. Archie Moore
4. Michael Spinks
5. Bob Foster
6. Roy Jones
7. Georges Carpentier
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Dwight Qawi
10. Tommy Hearns

[CHEECH]

gene tunney? man circled the ring n picked jack dempsy apart twice but was really a lightheavy sized fighter. not sure of his record at 175 but i do imagine he was a helluva fighter. another one like that might b fitsimmons, with a legendary solar plexus ko punch. if he did have a knack for landing that shot, he might b one of the best at 175 as well

[mickey malone]

gene tunney? man circled the ring n picked jack dempsy apart twice but was really a lightheavy sized fighter. not sure of his record at 175 but i do imagine he was a helluva fighter. another one like that might b fitsimmons, with a legendary solar plexus ko punch. if he did have a knack for landing that shot, he might b one of the best at 175 as well

Tunney was US lightheavy champ before moving up.
Won it from Battling Levinsky, then lost it, and won it back, against Harry Greb.
Had a ko win over Carpentier, aswell as a hotly disputed draw with Tommy Loughran, who come to think of it, should've made it onto my list. May have been a bit feather fisted, but incredibly skilled.

[SBleeder]

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Gene Tunney
3. Archie Moore
4. Michael Spinks
5. Bob Foster
6. Roy Jones
7. Georges Carpentier
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Dwight Qawi
10. Tommy Hearns

I was with you until #10. How is Hearns an ATG Light Heavyweight?