Rating Frazier

[JAB5239]

Slapping an "ATG" label on them doesn't make them all the same. And two of Marciano ATG's were because they were great lightheavyweights. If you isolate Charles and Moore at heavyweight, they weren't quite all time greats. The two losses definitely seperate the two, but this was specifically about the level of competition they faced.

Exactly. In my opinion there is no doubt Lewis fought and beat better heavyweight competition.

[Holtol]

]Slapping an "ATG" label on them doesn't make them all the same. And two of Marciano ATG's were because they were great lightheavyweights. If you isolate Charles and Moore at heavyweight, they weren't quite all time greats. The two losses definitely seperate the two, but this was specifically about the level of competition they faced

Joe Walcott did well against Marciano but Marciano was blinded. That fight may be the worst blemish in Marciano's carreer. Lennox was Knocked out 2 times. Won a fight on cuts which he was behind in and got a gift against Holyfield.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=Holtol;10211640]

Slapping an "ATG" label on them doesn't make them all the same. And two of Marciano ATG's were because they were great lightheavyweights. If you isolate Charles and Moore at heavyweight, they weren't quite all time greats. The two losses definitely seperate the two, but this was specifically about the level of competition they faced.[/QUOT

Joe Walcott did well against Marciano but Marciano was blinded. That fight may be the worst blemish in Marciano's carreer. Lennox was Knocked out 2 times. Won a fight on cuts which he was behind in and got a gift against Holyfield.

Lewis decisively avenged both losses, was screwed in the draw against Evander and beat Vitaly fair and square. We don't hold it against Rocky that he was getting schooled for 13 rounds before landing the right hand that won him the title, do we?

[Scott9945]

[quote=Holtol;10211640]

Slapping an "ATG" label on them doesn't make them all the same. And two of Marciano ATG's were because they were great lightheavyweights. If you isolate Charles and Moore at heavyweight, they weren't quite all time greats. The two losses definitely seperate the two, but this was specifically about the level of competition they faced.[/QUOT

Joe Walcott did well against Marciano but Marciano was blinded. That fight may be the worst blemish in Marciano's carreer. Lennox was Knocked out 2 times. Won a fight on cuts which he was behind in and got a gift against Holyfield.

Once again, Lewis' losses are NOT a factor in who fought the better competition. I wouldn't argue with anyone rating Marciano higher for that reason.

And being behind 4-2 is hardly a near loss. Lewis beat Holyfield twice, once in a close fight and once in a landslide.

[Steak]

I dont see how people have Dempsey and Johnson very high in their list, but dont mention Wills at all.

Wills beat a lot of the best guys Johnson and Dempsey did. its not his fault that neither of them gave him a title shot.

[Holtol]

Lewis decisively avenged both losses, was screwed in the draw against Evander and beat Vitaly fair and square. We don't hold it against Rocky that he was getting schooled for 13 rounds before landing the right hand that won him the title, do we?[/COLOR]

Marciano was behind in the fight, due to being not able to see. When his vision cleared he was able to ko Walcott. I don't think the competition that Lewis faced was better.

It's a lot different the way Marciano beat Walcott compared to the way Lewis beat Vitali.

Do you think that Lewis era was a lot better then Marciano's?

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=Holtol;10212092]

Marciano was behined in the fight, due to being not able to see. When his vision cleared he was able to ko Walcott. I don't think the competition that Lewis faced was better.

It's a lot different the way Marciano beat Walcott compared to the way Lewis beat Vitali.

Well look at it another way....Lewis was the old man in his fight with Vitaly. Walcott was the old man against Marciano. Both won, but both struggled. Lewis was fighting his last fight. Marciano was fighting a guy in his last fights.

What was Walcott blinded by?

[Holtol]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;10212123]

Well look at it another way....Lewis was the old man in his fight with Vitaly. Walcott was the old man against Marciano. Both won, but both struggled. Lewis was fighting his last fight. Marciano was fighting a guy in his last fights.

What was Walcott blinded by?

Well, Lewis was beat when he was young and he was out fought in some respects when he was old. Marciano just never lost even when he was blinded in the fight with Walcott. Walcott was not blinded it was Marciano. Do you think Lewis's era was that much better then Marciano's?

[Holtol]

[QUOTE=Scott9945;10211737]

Once again, Lewis' losses are NOT a factor in who fought the better competition. I wouldn't argue with anyone rating Marciano higher for that reason.

And being behind 4-2 is hardly a near loss. Lewis beat Holyfield twice, once in a close fight and once in a landslide.

Why do you think Lewis's era was so much better then Marciano's?

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=Holtol;10212167]

Well, Lewis was beat when he was young and he was out fought in some respects when he was old. Marciano just never lost even when he was blinded in the fight with Walcott. Walcott was not blinded it was Marciano. Do you think Lewis's era was that much better then Marciano's?

I do believe Lewis era was stronger.

How was Marciano blinded H?