ATG Heavies who were KO'd early...

[CarlosG815]

I would favor Ezzard Charles over him at Light-Heavy, maybe Gene Tunney and Archie Moore too, but that's about it: I'm certain he would have been a top-5 Light-Heavy at WORST had he made his career there.

Poet

I think Patterson beats them all. Charles would be the toughest fight but he doesn't beat Patterson.

[Kid McCoy]

And lacked the chin to be an ATG.

Poet

I don't think Floyd's chin was that bad, all things considered. His aggressive style with those leaping hooks often left him off balance, which made him more vulnerable to knockdowns. He did get dropped a lot but like Juan Manuel Marquez, putting him on the canvas and keeping him there were two different things. Only Liston was able to put him down for a ten count. No disgrace in that.

[StarshipTrooper]

I don't think Floyd's chin was that bad, all things considered. His aggressive style with those leaping hooks often left him off balance, which made him more vulnerable to knockdowns. He did get dropped a lot but like Juan Manuel Marquez, putting him on the canvas and keeping him there were two different things. Only Liston was able to put him down for a ten count. No disgrace in that.

You may have a point there, but I was thinking more the 1st Johansson fight than the Liston fights.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

I think Patterson beats them all. Charles would be the toughest fight but he doesn't beat Patterson.

Charles is a bit of a bridge too far. How highly do I think of Charles? Let's put it this way: If it wasn't for Ray Robinson I'd have Charles on the VERY short list for p4p GOAT.

Poet

[Anthony342]

Nothing to do with referees, stadiums, altitude or anything else, it is all to do with Lewis chin and how he went down and how he failed to recover... both knock outs he suffered Lewis went down as if a ******* had been leveled on him and failed to beat the count. against Rahman the referee could have counted to 50 and he would not have beaten the count and against McCall he was not unlike Trevor Berbick against Tyson with Lewis falling into the ropes then into the opposite ropes then into the referees arms.. Rahman was not a great puncher and never in his career did he replicate his knock out of Lewis against any other opponent... So like Poet says.. Lewis cannot be ranked as ATG because of those 2 knock outs and his other wobblers he took against journeymen fighters, how can he possibly be ranked against fighters like Frazier, Dempsey, Foreman, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Johnson, Louis, Ali and others when those fighters punch far harder than Rahman or McCall

Yeah I see what you guys mean. I still like Lewis though and he's still one of my favorites.

[young_robbed]

Winning it twice means he lost it twice. Next. I'd point out that Wilfred Benitez won a world title at age 17 but that ISN'T what makes him an ATG.

Poet

definitely he ranks in my top 20 heavyweights based on achievments.
and he was hard to beat in and out of his prime.
and he shouldve been given a decision against Ellis making him the third time champ

[New England]

Why don't two of the biggest boxers in history in Wladimir and Lewis have the best chins in history?

Why didn't Valuve simply punch Holyfields head into orbit?

Why have their been so few good heavyweights over 250 pounds?

The world's best large athletes no longer take their talents to boxing


Why have their been so few good heaviweights over 250 lbs?
they're playing basketball

in the past, when the worlds best large athletes boxed, the men just werent as big.
does that doom them neccessarily to losses agaisnt bigger men? certainly not
but does that negate the advantages size allows?
no


primo carnera was litterally found in a circus
his career was a cashcow for illigitimate businessmen

he wasnt much more than a freak

nikolai valuev is a dismal athletic specimen
he looks like he's a pituitary giant (suffers from gigantism)
simmilar situation


lennox lewis had a very good chin. heavyweights that get caught w/ flush sunday punches and get kayo's shouldnt neccessarily be doomed to an eternity of speculation about beard quality

he catches plenty of guff for knockout losses without credit for the victories he had over tremendous punchers (tua, tyson, mercer, vitali in his prime when he was a real puncher, razor ruddock, shannon briggs, tommy morrison)


i've met lennox
to believe that a small heavyweight wouldnt at least face a tough task in dealing w/ his size is rediculous


he's a mountain of a man

[NChristo]

Spoken like a true meathead who probably never used a brain cell in his life. By your standard Primo Carnera was the GOAT of punchers.....when, of course, he couldn't "bust an egg with a hammer". Try actually turning your brain on (assuming you actually HAVE one).

Primo has the most KOs at Heavyweight, wouldn't say he couldn't "bust a egg with a hammer".

Jus' sayin.

[StarshipTrooper]

Primo has the most KOs at Heavyweight, wouldn't say he couldn't "bust a egg with a hammer".

Jus' sayin.

Primo also racked up most of them against setups and easy pickings.....no different from any highly touted prospect today racking up lots of KOs against the usual batch of soft touches.

Poet

[CiganoBoxer]

Poet, I am referring to fighters who were prime or near the top of their game, as Lennox was above.

He is the only example I can think of. I am looking for more.

Carlos who turned you red ??
Trolls dont stay green long around the boxing History section do they